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Denon D7100?! - Page 76  

post #1126 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangster View Post

For a $1000+ pair of headphones, that's poor. You going to send them off for another pair?

 

Yeah., I'll get another pair.  It happens to the best products on the planet so it's no biggie.

 

Mike

post #1127 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebna View Post

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for input and recommendations. My budget is max around 500 euro for the amp so a lot of proposal would not fit by quite a margin but there is not much I can do about it at this stage.

 

Quick question - on example of suggested here Yulong D100mkII. It has frequencies range of 20hz to 20 khz which narrows massively of what D7100 can reproduce - am I right or am I missing something or not understanding correctly? Will it limit of what D7100 can do or does it work in some other way which I dont understand (sorry for noob question).


Thanks keep it coming guys

 

Also I am considering product which will be little known on this forum but from what I know it is quality one which has all the characteristics of giant killer :), but will it be a good match for D7100 in your opinion from technical point of view (impedance, current, voltage, amperage and so on - it is a transistor type AMP BTW). According to this formula 20 * log[(Zmin+Zamp)*Zmax/(Zmax+Zamp)*Zmin] everything should be fine (the result is close to 0.25db) but what about the 1,5W RMS on headphone out for 32ohms impedance of D7100 which this AMP supplies?

 

One polish review which was done by pro reviewer said it is a great match for D600 which he was testing in this review (it was actually more expensive version of this AMP but with very similar sonic characteristics, just mostly different power section from what I understand)

 

The AMP which I am thinking of is called Black Pearl -> here is the link to company page and product description (scroll down the small window to get to pricing and specs)

http://earstream.eu/page/66/Black+Pearl/l/en

 

Here is about the only review from user other then from country of AMP's orgin - Poland:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/642742/black-pearl-headphone-amp-from-ear-stream-loaners-thoughts

 

Let me know what do you think guys.

 

Thanks

It looks like a good fit, I'm always sceptical of of products that don't post SNR or THD, even though it doesn't mean too much.

I had a look at the review on head-fi, and I'd be worried, he did say you hear static/hum with low impedance cans, or sensitive ones. So I wouldn't

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Croozer View Post


The amp you are looking at has a output impedance of 5 ohms, it should work well with the Denons.

Here is a previous post on the subject of amping Denon cans:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/619181/list-opinion-amp-recommendations-for-fostex-denon-headphones

He already did - thats where he got the equation. He did his homework.

post #1128 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taowolf51 View Post

 

 

omg thats terrible. seems like they would have fun strong bass, but muddy bass with recessed mids (like beats). 

reading some of these comments here leads me to really believe the d7100 is a step down from the d7000.


Edited by Dubstep Girl - 1/29/13 at 1:17am
post #1129 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

omg thats terrible. seems like they would have fun strong bass, but muddy bass with recessed mids (like beats). 

reading some of these comments here leads me to really believe the d7100 is a step down from the d7000.

Check the square wave and you will vomit. Keep your D7000. Or better yet, sell them to me, I wouldn't mind having 2 :P jokes.

post #1130 of 1913

wow lol, just checked them out, really really bad. even worse if u compare to something like beats....

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MonsterBeatsbyDrDreSoloHD.pdf

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD7000.pdf

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD7100.pdf

post #1131 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

wow lol, just checked them out, really really bad. even worse if u compare to something like beats....

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MonsterBeatsbyDrDreSoloHD.pdf

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD7000.pdf

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD7100.pdf

 

Welcome to the club of disappointment. Seems the true D7000 successor lies in the bloodline: Fostex TH900/TH600. The square waves show Denon was really not paying attention to SQ enough to properly dampen the cups.

 

 

Seems like amazon dropped their prices on these again to below $600 for the first time, $575 is now the open box price.  


Edited by elwappo99 - 1/29/13 at 6:26am
post #1132 of 1913

I don't get why everyone is so OCD over Tyll's measurements.  From my brief listening, the D7100 is not that bad.  Once I have mine replaced I'll do more listening.  I recommend to try the D7100 outside of a demo environment and give them some serious ear time, not just spot listening sessions.  

post #1133 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiGuy528 View Post

I don't get why everyone is so OCD over Tyll's measurements.  From my brief listening, the D7100 is not that bad.  Once I have mine replaced I'll do more listening.  I recommend to try the D7100 outside of a demo environment and give them some serious ear time, not just spot listening sessions.  

I am sure they sound decent, but at that price point "not too bad" is not a reassuring review.

post #1134 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiGuy528 View Post

I don't get why everyone is so OCD over Tyll's measurements.  From my brief listening, the D7100 is not that bad.  Once I have mine replaced I'll do more listening.  I recommend to try the D7100 outside of a demo environment and give them some serious ear time, not just spot listening sessions.  

at $400 yes not too bad. Same crap as beats with with parts of the frequency spectrum not ripped through an *******.

post #1135 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiGuy528 View Post

I don't get why everyone is so OCD over Tyll's measurements.  From my brief listening, the D7100 is not that bad.  Once I have mine replaced I'll do more listening.  I recommend to try the D7100 outside of a demo environment and give them some serious ear time, not just spot listening sessions.  

 

Measurements give something solid to discuss. We can all look at the image and discuss it in a concrete way, whereas listening impressions are harder to track. At first I didn't understand the point of them, or appreciate them. Over the years, I have started to understand their place. 

 

Do measurements tell you if you will like a headphone? Not really, but they can give you an idea (e.g. if you like a warmer headphone, a FR that looks like the HD650 might be to your liking)

Do they tell you how good a headphone is? In some ways they can indicate the potential for a headphone to be good, based on FR, and impulse response to show accuracy and control

Are they the end all? Definitely not, listening for yourself is the final word.

Can they point out potential flaws? Definitely

 

 

 

The biggest stand out problem with these headphones is the bass. I couldn't even get to any other portion of these headphones because the bass was overpowering, poor quality, muddy, and completely uncontrolled. The incredible amount of ringing of the bass causes this. Even a simple review of the 50Hz square shows this.

 

Take the HE-500 as an example of what a controlled bass spectrum looks like: (keep in mind, nearly any ortho will look like this)

 

 

 

Let's look at a 'warm' dynamic headphone:

 

 

 

 

What about a dynamic that is unanimously considered 'bass heavy': (And many find these too bass heavy for common listening)

 

 

And.... The new 'flagship'

 

 

And for completeness' sake:

 

 

You can see that the bass is not controlled and just floats around in the cup. 


Edited by elwappo99 - 1/29/13 at 10:45am
post #1136 of 1913

I laughed so hard, like off my chair hard.

post #1137 of 1913

I must say I not necessarily precisely understand the graphs yet but I certainly can understand comparison like this to some extent and it got me worried especially that I am not fan of bass at all.

 

Well worst case scenario I can return D7100 if there is too much of bass.

 

But were those graphs taken after proper burn-in of D7100 which is supposed to take of 200h+ hours after which the bass gets better and mids as well?

 

Also what strikes me the most - Denon as all top manufacturers in HP world take few years of development before he releases the product on the market and taking in account that those guys are Japanese they are pretty precise about the result they want to achieve and have in plans so please can someone here explain to me why after 3 years of development they would release product which is subpar especially when few simple measurements can show it black on white?

 

As about the amp - take in the account that hum and noise was accounted to "hostile" enviorment in which he tested it and once moved to elsewhere it was not present. Also the reviewer like the amp so much in the end that he bought one for himself :)

post #1138 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post


You can see that the bass is not controlled and just floats around in the cup. 

 

Well actually the bass square response of D7100  looks better than D7000. Ideally, you'd see a perfect square ware, and the measurements for D7100  looks closer to a square wave than D7000.

From what I've understood the D7100  are not bad, they are just too much overpriced.

post #1139 of 1913

The HE 500 would be the most ideal square wave response of those linked. A relatively horizontal, flat line with no dips, that *never* reaches above the height of the blip.

 

The D7100 seems to have a square wave response similar to the Beats headphones, where the line rises much higher than the blip. The D600 does a decent amount better than the D7100, but not as good as the other headphones listed.

 

This is the LCD2 (rev 2), it's damn near ideal:

 

 

Here is the square wave response for the Beats Solo HD (top):


Edited by Taowolf51 - 1/30/13 at 1:25pm
post #1140 of 1913

How do you burn-in your Denons guys (in particular D7100 of it matters)?
 

Could someone guide me a bit in the right direction? Do you use pink-noise or mixture of different noises, frequnecies bands runs? What software or audio files?

 

Thanks

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