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Denon D7100?! - Page 75  

post #1111 of 1913

Hi Guys,

 

I have three quick questions about D7100 which I just bought (dont have them yet).

 

1. Do they benefit from Amplification or should I not bother (and is the benefit worth extra spending - I do not own any HP AMP ATM)?

 

2. Do or did anybody use them with Schiit Lyr and to what results? What was the combination like, did they matched up nicely?

 

3. Can I make the cable for them this way that they would be balanced? So I can use them with Mjolnir? Did anybody did this and what are the impressions from usage of this combo?

 

Thanks

post #1112 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebna View Post

Hi Guys,

 

I have three quick questions about D7100 which I just bought (dont have them yet).

 

1. Do they benefit from Amplification or should I not bother (and is the benefit worth extra spending - I do not own any HP AMP ATM)?

 

2. Do or did anybody use them with Schiit Lyr and to what results? What was the combination like, did they matched up nicely?

 

3. Can I make the cable for them this way that they would be balanced? So I can use them with Mjolnir? Did anybody did this and what are the impressions from usage of this combo?

 

Thanks

 

Congrats on your purchase! Hopefully you don't return them though. To answer your questions:

 

1. They're designed to play nice and loud out of portable DAPs, but you WILL want to get a good DAC/amp for them. I'd focus on a good DAC first, since the D7100 doesn't need much power to drive. It's more of a synergy thing for them. Maybe E17, Dragonfly or something. 

 

2. Lyr would be overkill and even potentially destructive for the 7100. I recommend Asgard if you want Schiit.

 

3. The cable is removable so balanced wiring is definitely possible. If anything just get a balanced cable for them. I don't know much about balancing, but for the old Dx000 series balanced wiring didn't seem to improve them much from the people who did.

post #1113 of 1913

The DAC is ATM Xonar D2 with Flac collection so it is not bad but well not good either :) Proper DAC will follow at later stage but nothing like FIIO ... some proper quality DAC for home listening.

 

With Lyr - do you mean that if volume turned too high they could be burned or do you mean that it could be dangerous even at minimal volume?

 

I dont think I am going to be returning them as I bought them for around 700$ new on promotion so close to D600 price (actually cheaper then the price of the D600 in this shop).

 

Still if anybody would let me know about experience of using them with Lyr or even better Mjolnir that would be great.


Edited by sebna - 1/25/13 at 8:18pm
post #1114 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebna View Post

Hi Guys,

I have three quick questions about D7100 which I just bought (dont have them yet).

1. Do they benefit from Amplification or should I not bother (and is the benefit worth extra spending - I do not own any HP AMP ATM)?

2. Do or did anybody use them with Schiit Lyr and to what results? What was the combination like, did they matched up nicely?

3. Can I make the cable for them this way that they would be balanced? So I can use them with Mjolnir? Did anybody did this and what are the impressions from usage of this combo?

Thanks

I'll buy your stock cable from you if the price is right.
post #1115 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebna View Post

The DAC is ATM Xonar D2 with Flac collection so it is not bad but well not good either :) Proper DAC will follow at later stage but nothing like FIIO ... some proper quality DAC for home listening.

 

With Lyr - do you mean that if volume turned too high they could be burned or do you mean that it could be dangerous even at minimal volume?

 

I dont think I am going to be returning them as I bought them for around 700$ new on promotion so close to D600 price (actually cheaper then the price of the D600 in this shop).

 

Still if anybody would let me know about experience of using them with Lyr or even better Mjolnir that would be great.

 

1. I see, for home listening you definitely want something with more power and connectivity. You can still keep the Asus to output optical/coax signal to your future DAC, or simply use USB.

 

2. The Lyr's maximum power output is way too high for most conventional dynamic headphones, they were made with orthodynamics in mind. Even without the potential of damaging your headphones, if you do end up with something like that you'll have very little head room for volume adjustment because the Denon gets loud very fast on high current solid state/hybrid amps. Even with my Asgard I'm rarely able to go past 10 o'clock without feeling worried for my hearing. I don't have the D7100 but am speaking based on my experience with the D600 and D7000.

post #1116 of 1913

I wouldn't buy the D7100 unless at like $400 (since the weaknesses are the same as cans in that range).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinkPro View Post

 

2. Lyr would be overkill and even potentially destructive for the 7100. I recommend Asgard if you want Schiit.

 

3. The cable is removable so balanced wiring is definitely possible. If anything just get a balanced cable for them. I don't know much about balancing, but for the old Dx000 series balanced wiring didn't seem to improve them much from the people who did.

good choice, the Lyr is a bad idea, its made for inefficient low impedance cans.

Actually the wiring is already balanced inside the Denon AFAIK? you just have to re-terminate as XLR and done. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebna View Post

The DAC is ATM Xonar D2 with Flac collection so it is not bad but well not good either :) Proper DAC will follow at later stage but nothing like FIIO ... some proper quality DAC for home listening.

 

With Lyr - do you mean that if volume turned too high they could be burned or do you mean that it could be dangerous even at minimal volume?

 

I dont think I am going to be returning them as I bought them for around 700$ new on promotion so close to D600 price (actually cheaper then the price of the D600 in this shop).

 

Still if anybody would let me know about experience of using them with Lyr or even better Mjolnir that would be great.

I wouldn't go Lyr or Mjolnir, the odds are the noise floor will be too high. 

 

As for DAC, since your budget seems decent, Yulong D100mkII for and amp+DAC combo (and its a really good DAC)

 

Or if you wanna spend big bucks, Yulong D18 + Hiface m2tech USB to Coax converter, and any of these:

(The Yulong D18 is a dac that sounds vinyl in its presentation according to project86, but it needs a butter clean Digital source, hence the Hiface)

 

  • Yulong A18 - smooth on smooth
  • Burson Soloist, can't go wrong there, 
  • Violectric V200 - another good safe bet.

 

All these amps are suitable for the D7000 (which is a better headphone) and they all have low output impedance, and plenty of current, which low impedance cans need.

Can check the link in my sig for further info, but bare in mind because the D7100 is not well liked, you won't get much feedback directly for it, so this will have to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinkPro View Post

2. The Lyr's maximum power output is way too high for most conventional dynamic headphones, they were made with orthodynamics in mind. Even without the potential of damaging your headphones, if you do end up with something like that you'll have very little head room for volume adjustment because the Denon gets loud very fast on high current solid state/hybrid amps. Even with my Asgard I'm rarely able to go past 10 o'clock without feeling worried for my hearing. I don't have the D7100 but am speaking based on my experience with the D600 and D7000.

bingo

post #1117 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebna View Post

1. Do they benefit from Amplification or should I not bother (and is the benefit worth extra spending - I do not own any HP AMP ATM)?

Congratz on your purchase.

I use a Burson HA 160 DS and it pairs great with the D7100.
post #1118 of 1913

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for input and recommendations. My budget is max around 500 euro for the amp so a lot of proposal would not fit by quite a margin but there is not much I can do about it at this stage.

 

Quick question - on example of suggested here Yulong D100mkII. It has frequencies range of 20hz to 20 khz which narrows massively of what D7100 can reproduce - am I right or am I missing something or not understanding correctly? Will it limit of what D7100 can do or does it work in some other way which I dont understand (sorry for noob question).


Thanks keep it coming guys

 

Also I am considering product which will be little known on this forum but from what I know it is quality one which has all the characteristics of giant killer :), but will it be a good match for D7100 in your opinion from technical point of view (impedance, current, voltage, amperage and so on - it is a transistor type AMP BTW). According to this formula 20 * log[(Zmin+Zamp)*Zmax/(Zmax+Zamp)*Zmin] everything should be fine (the result is close to 0.25db) but what about the 1,5W RMS on headphone out for 32ohms impedance of D7100 which this AMP supplies?

 

One polish review which was done by pro reviewer said it is a great match for D600 which he was testing in this review (it was actually more expensive version of this AMP but with very similar sonic characteristics, just mostly different power section from what I understand)

 

The AMP which I am thinking of is called Black Pearl -> here is the link to company page and product description (scroll down the small window to get to pricing and specs)

http://earstream.eu/page/66/Black+Pearl/l/en

 

Here is about the only review from user other then from country of AMP's orgin - Poland:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/642742/black-pearl-headphone-amp-from-ear-stream-loaners-thoughts

 

Let me know what do you think guys.

 

Thanks


Edited by sebna - 1/26/13 at 3:29pm
post #1119 of 1913

There is a review on Six Moons, iirc.

post #1120 of 1913

The only one I can find is for Sonic Pearl, a sister product, newer and a bit better version of Black Pearl but I cannot find Black Pearl review on 6moons.

 

Could you post link to it?

 

Thanks
 

post #1121 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebna View Post

Thanks keep it coming guys

The amp you are looking at has a output impedance of 5 ohms, it should work well with the Denons.

Here is a previous post on the subject of amping Denon cans:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/619181/list-opinion-amp-recommendations-for-fostex-denon-headphones
Edited by Croozer - 1/27/13 at 7:41am
post #1122 of 1913

My D7100 has a balance issue. :( Right is slightly louder than Left.  

post #1123 of 1913

Is it very slight or is it annoying?
 

post #1124 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsesivegamer View Post

Is it very slight or is it annoying?
 

 

well.... since I have severe OCD the slight imbalance is annoying.  It's instantly obvious when compared to my D7000.

post #1125 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiGuy528 View Post

My D7100 has a balance issue. :( Right is slightly louder than Left.  

For a $1000+ pair of headphones, that's poor. You going to send them off for another pair?

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