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Neck Deep in Schiit: Gungir Balanced DAC and Mjolnir Balanced Amp Announced! - Page 11

post #151 of 306
I am pretty sure that Jason has made it public that the statement dac will use something quite special that is not currently used in any consumer dac.
post #152 of 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremer930 View Post

I am pretty sure that Jason has made it public that the statement dac will use something quite special that is not currently used in any consumer dac.


Yup, very sure he said that before. I believe he confirmed in an email with me too that the Statement would not be using a chip that is seen in any other DAC currently available.

 

post #153 of 306

So...this is just a pricey dac and not an amp with usb capabilities.

 

Do me a favor and make a dac/amp combo instead of making me have to buy the lyr/bitfrost >_>

post #154 of 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroakuma View Post

So...this is just a pricey dac and not an amp with usb capabilities.

 

Do me a favor and make a dac/amp combo instead of making me have to buy the lyr/bitfrost >_>


The pair is geared toward very different price ranges. I have a feeling that would also compromise the awesome simplicity that makes me love Schiit.
post #155 of 306
Thread Starter 

Hey all,

 

I think I can confirm two things:

 

1. No DAC/amps in our future. We don't like to have multi-megahertz clocks (lots of them, in the case of modern DACs) running around in the same chassis with sensitive analog electronics, without some very heroic shielding--which then begs the question of "why not put them in separate boxes?"

 

2. DSD. No plans to support this. If it's an important part of your collection, it's best to move on.

 

All the best,

Jason

post #156 of 306


 Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

Hey all,

 

I think I can confirm two things:

*  *  *

2. DSD. No plans to support this. If it's an important part of your collection, it's best to move on.

 

All the best,

Jason


Sure you're aware of the DSD-over-USB stuff that some manufacturers are trying to turn into a standard.  I'm probably just being a glutton for punishment here, but any chance your position might change if DSD-over-USB has taken off a bit by the time the statement DAC is ready?

 

It's not an important part of my collection yet, but I've heard DSD sounding awfully good (notably the Blue Coast Collection - converted to PCM by my software player), and wouldn't mind hearing more, or even better, hearing more in native format rather than having to convert to PCM along the way.

 

post #157 of 306

like I said on the previous page, DSD over USB requires 176.xxkHz PCM as a container format, not often used for anything but 4x 44.1kHz OS otherwise and Jason has already stated that it will not support this speed afaik. so thats a no for DSD over usb

 

also as I said, you dont actually really need a dac for DSD, what goes in is pretty much what comes out, you just need a high performance filter to handle the glitch energy


Edited by qusp - 4/9/12 at 12:13pm
post #158 of 306

Interestng (maybe to some) artilce on DSD....

 

http://www.audiostream.com/content/dop-open-standard

 

 

post #159 of 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

Hey all,

 

I think I can confirm two things:

 

1. No DAC/amps in our future. We don't like to have multi-megahertz clocks (lots of them, in the case of modern DACs) running around in the same chassis with sensitive analog electronics, without some very heroic shielding--which then begs the question of "why not put them in separate boxes?"

 

2. DSD. No plans to support this. If it's an important part of your collection, it's best to move on.

 

All the best,

Jason



J, with all due respect, among the top tier DAC mfrs you're in the minority on this subject. id reconsider DSD for your statement piece.

 

post #160 of 306

Well, let's examine the claim that DSD doesn't even require a DAC.  If that's true then the issue is a non issue.

post #161 of 306


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

Well, let's examine the claim that DSD doesn't even require a DAC.  If that's true then the issue is a non issue.



I think we're dealing with some ambiguity in the language (shocking, I know).  DSD - "Direct Stream Digital" - is a digital stream (another shock), so to get real music in analog form from it, you need a - yes, folks - Digital to Analog Converter, a/k/a "DAC."  Surprising, huh?  While qusp can speak for himself, what I think he's saying is that the filtering (decimation if you like) that converts the digital stream to analog is extremely simple.

 

post #162 of 306


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by judmarc View Post


 



I think we're dealing with some ambiguity in the language (shocking, I know).  DSD - "Direct Stream Digital" - is a digital stream (another shock), so to get real music in analog form from it, you need a - yes, folks - Digital to Analog Converter, a/k/a "DAC."  Surprising, huh?  While qusp can speak for himself, what I think he's saying is that the filtering (decimation if you like) that converts the digital stream to analog is extremely simple.

 



Or - the filtering that converts digital to analog is *theoretically* extremely simple.  More detail from our friend Wikipedia:

 

the 1-bit signal is recorded directly and in theory only requires a lowpass filter to reconstruct the original analog waveform. In reality it is a little more complex, and the analogy is incomplete in that 1-bit sigma-delta converters are these days rather unusual, one reason being that a 1-bit signal cannot be dithered properly: most modern sigma-delta converters are multibit.

Because of the nature of sigma-delta converters, one cannot make a direct comparison between DSD and PCM. An approximation is possible, though, and would place DSD in some aspects comparable to a PCM format that has a bit depth of 20 bits and a sampling frequency of 96 kHz.[3] PCM sampled at 24 bits provides a (theoretical) additional 24 dB of dynamic range.

Because it has been extremely difficult to carry out DSP operations (for example performing EQ, balance, panning and other changes in the digital domain) in a 1-bit environment, and because of the prevalence of studio equipment such as Pro Tools, which is solely PCM-based, the vast majority of SACDs — especially rock and contemporary music which relies on multitrack techniques — are in fact mixed in PCM (or mixed analog and recorded on PCM recorders) and then converted to DSD for SACD mastering.

To address some of these issues, a new studio format has been developed, usually referred to as "DSD-wide", which retains standard DSD's high sample rate but uses an 8-bit, rather than single-bit digital word length, but still relies heavily on the noise shaping principle. It becomes almost the same as PCM (it's sometimes disparagingly referred to as "PCM-narrow") but has the added benefit of making DSP operations in the studio a great deal more practical. The main difference is that "DSD-wide" still retains 2.8224 MHz (64Fs) sampling frequency while the highest frequency in which PCM is being edited is 352.8 kHz (8Fs). The "DSD-wide" signal is down-converted to regular DSD for SACD mastering. As a result of this technique and other developments there are now a few digital audio workstations (DAWs) that operate, or can operate, in the DSD domain, notably Pyramix and some SADiE systems.

 

 

 

post #163 of 306

I am very impressed with the Bifrost and Lyr that I am planning to get the statement Amp and DAC and move my Bifrost and Lyr to the office.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremer930 View Post

Nothing wrong with having a small Schiit bedroom rig and a big lounge room statement rig! At least that is what I keep telling myself.

 

 


Edited by weitn - 4/17/12 at 1:18am
post #164 of 306

Can't wait for more info on the upcoming Schiit statement amp as well. Enlighten us Jason! wink.gif

post #165 of 306
Thread Starter 

Hey all,

 

Not much to update yet, I'm afraid--we're deep in the physical layout and drawings of the statement stuff, so there's plenty of things yet to be worked out. Engineering is proceeding quickly, though, and the production-intent protos of Mjolnir and Gungnir are sounding good!

 

With respect to DSD, Mike is of the opinion that it's an inherently flawed format (and this is putting his response, ahem, very, very mildly), so we haven't spent much time with it. However, if enough people are using it, it's something we have to think about supporting. Which means it's probably time for another poll to see how many people have SACD/DSD and how much of their software is in that format. 

 

All the best,

Jason

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