I've been using the TD-11 for about one year and I've dealt with two types of serious noise.
The first is the fuzzy static sound which is common when the TD-11 is cold.  I also sleep my Asus netbook by closing the lid (not hibernate), so it's never getting a clean boot.  I've always suspected a connection between the noise and sleeping the netbook, but I am also able to reproduce this in windows w/o music [while it's cold] ...
  1. right-clicking on the volume control in the system task tray, and choosing "Playback devices"
  2. right-clicking on a device in the "Playback" tab, and choosing "Properties"
  3. switching tabs to "Supported Formats" (see image below)
  4. clicking on "88.2" or "96.0" and hitting the "Test" button

This fuzz noise I suspected to be jitter, but I have no idea what jitter sounds like.  Really wanted an Audiophilleo-1 to test this.  I also suspected that maybe it had something to do with the Yulong driver.  I keep the TD-11 near my preamp with short interconnects, and my netbook at my listening position.  So I had about 15ft of junk USB bridging the gap, when in practice USB shouldn't ever go over 2 meters (I read USB is good for 10ft, coax/rca/bnc SPDIF 30ft, and balanced SPDIF 300ft).  This was a great excuse to grab a JKSPDIF MK3 off audiogon!  While the TD-11's SPDIF input does behave better than the USB input, I was still able to reproduce the fuzz [while it's cold] through SPDIF, and I did so on a Core-i7 workstation.  But after a warm up the SPDIF input can play a clean test tone at 192khz!  I use a 17ft bluejean spdif cable and I only use the TD-11's DAC out.

There is a second [more troubling] sound that may have nothing to do with the TD-11 or it's driver (definitely not the wires).  When I hit the play/pause button on a multimedia keyboard the sound pauses.  When I try to take it out of pause by hitting it a 2nd time I get an extremely loud white noise sound, that actually killed one of my VIFA midranges.  I lived with this for so long that I became conditioned never to pause my music.  This was the first thing I tested with the JKSPDIF and there is no such danger.  I suspected my OS might be to blame for this -- I was using the Windows 7 x32 Starter Edition that the netbook came with and this weekend I finally reformatted with Win7 x64 pro.  Before the reinstall I assumed that my N550 atom cpu was junk and the pre-installed OS was the best performance I could expect.  Not so!  Some tuning steps I recommend for a dedicated audio pc are disabling onboard audio in the bios, omit any software that might require updates (like office and antivirus), uninstall tablet components, and uninstall all microsoft media features (dvd maker, media center, and media player).

SwanSong:
I don't have a great ear for small changes in the signal path (cable changes are almost lost on me).  I also don't have any music over 96khz.  But sound difference aside, I do think the TD-11 behaves better on it's SPDIF input.  My friend has a more expensive equipment chain including the W4S DAC2 and the both of us couldn't hear the difference between it playing on junk USB vs the JKSPDIF.  We easily sent a 192khz test tone into his USB port where the TD-11 can only do that through the SPDIF.  I will say that on my system (TD-11), when you don't use the RF attenuator the sound change is minor.  But with the RF attenuator I definitely noticed that much of the harshness was lifted from the music's peaks and loud passages (my Thiel speakers have a bad rep for being bright).  With the peaks tamed it was as if the subtle secondary sounds were now playing louder (and the milky way reveals itself in the absence of light pollution).  This is the type of improvement I expected from better interconnects, but the attenuator impressed me most.

Project86:
(while we're on the topic of hibernation)
JPlay is supposed to have taken clean playback to extreme lengths, and one thing they are offering is playback IN [what they call] hibernation mode.  Hibernation is clearly the wrong term, but if the computer is indeed reaching sleep mode while continuing playback (although with zero keyboard control) than that's impressive.  Sadly I couldn't hear the difference between JPlay and Foobar but I was happy to make the purchase because I appreciate his goals and methods, and maybe one day my system (or someone else's ears) will be good enough to reveal the benefits of JPlay.

The TubeDAC-11 should be ready to go after about 30 seconds once the tube is energized and you shouldn't be hearing any sort of noise after this 30 second period and on all outputs the TubeDAC-11 should be dead quiet. Are you hearing it on all outputs? You have the Dac Direct which would eliminate any output stage issues (handy troubleshooter) and if you get the noise on the DAC Direct outs on startup then it is likely something from the computer end. When using USB audio from your computer it is a very good idea to use a powered USB hub if using other USB devices, such as a multimedia keyboard or USB powered hard drive. Also make sure all sound effects, systems sounds and EQ are off and make sure your volumes in the computer are all maxed to full. Use the TubeDAC-11's volume control or if hooked up to another pre use that as your volume control. Do not use digital volume controls in the computer as all that does is reduce bit depth when lowered from full.

Hope that helps,

Ian

Hi Ian, 

What are the benefits of a powered USB hub?  I also have an external hard drive where my music resides, a mouse, and a printer hooked up to USB ports on my computer and docking station.

- Brad

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradleyP 

Hi Ian, 

 

What are the benefits of a powered USB hub?  I also have an external hard drive where my music resides, a mouse, and a printer hooked up to USB ports on my computer and docking station.

 

- Brad

Current and voltage can drop with too many things hooked up to the USB port, especially USB devices that are receiving power from the host computer, this can cause issues like keystrokes or mouse movements interrupting music playback and even screen refreshes interrupting or worse increase jitter on any USB DAC. If you think you are having issues a $10 to $20 powered USB hub can be the solution, plug the powered USB hub into one computer USB port for your accessories and your USB DAC into another computer USB port. I think the USB spec allows for 2 or 3 USB devices to plugged in and active at the same time, but that isn't thinking about audio streaming which has to be free of glitches, you won't notice a hard drive, mouse or keyboard glitching :)

Laptops actually seem to have better USB implementation with regard to voltage, as the keyboard and pointer is hardwired. I have no issue running a USB mouse, USB hardrive and USB DAC at the same time with any of my laptops for the past 4 years. 

Cheers,

Ian

or avoid the whole mess and use the digital optical/spdif.  all the inputs is one of the main reasons I gave this product a real hard look and I'm glad to have it now.   the optical cables just seem so much more futuristic to me, how could I not use them :)

1) I don't use earphones so I'm always on the DAC-out port.  I'll remove the vacuume tube if you think that will help.

2) I pre-ordered this unit so this is likely from your first production batch

Hi Wynnytsky

If you play 24/96 music with Foobar just using the USB cable direct to the TubeDAC-11, no WASAPI, no ASIO, just the default windows USB driver do you get the same start up symptoms on Windows 7 computer? Is all your volumes at max (including the Control Panel). Try it like that, if all is fine then the TubeDAC-11 is fine and you need to dig in to find where the issue is elsewhere. Also try another USB cable if it still doing it.

You and BradlyP are the first I have heard of any sort of start up issue.

Cheers,

Ian

Since :

-through foobar - WASAPI all freq are clean

I'd have to say you will need to dig into your setup as the TubeDAC-11 is working fine. The only time  looked at WASAPI they (foobar team I think) said not suggested for Win7, that was a while ago though. Personally I don't bother with things like WASAPI, the TubeDAC-11 sounds great with the standard USB, and some can hear the difference with the ASIO Driver we provide. 

Again I note you playing with volume and mutes, I again suggest you leave those alone and use the TubeDAC-11 Volume for those.

Cheers,

Ian

I do appreciate that the TD-11 sounds so good w/o drivers (I could never tell a diff with any combination of Yulong or WASAPI).  But if others are able to pass the "playback device test" @ 96khz then that would confirm that something (either software or hardware) can be improved in my setup.  This windows test is in no way the final word, as foobar can still get the job done.  Merely curious as to what these results mean.

BTW: This morning I downloaded some 24/192khz albums and they played clean on a cold TD-11 w/ WASAPI (event and push).

i have a question, i never turn off my td-11 anymore, i've left it running for about 2 months now, i like having it always ready to go without waiting for it to warm up, but how does this affect the tube? am i significantly shortening its life span? i rolled out the stock with a mullard rca 6922, should i be concerned?

Hi, I'm new to the DAC info, but will be purchasing a DAC unit soon. I liked your write up on the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 and this appears to be what I'm looking for.

I would like to play music I have on my external hard drive, transfer my Cassette/Reel to Reel/Vinyl to my hard drive preserving the full sound information coming from the vinyl/Analog on to my hard drive.

I use a desk top to play the hard drive music through a Sansui AU9500 amp.  I also have my reel to reel, turntable, cassette running through the Sansui.

Is this device something that will fill my needs? I will be moving to a laptop in the near furture, replacing the desk top.  I also use high quality headphones.

I have looked at the Pro-Ject Stream Box DS, but fell I can get a cheaper/comparable set up using wifi from my laptop and a cheaper unti like this.  I have also looked at the Asus

Thank you for your write up and your help,

The Rooter

thanks project86, i appreciate the help, just 1 final follow up question, i currently run my tube out to an external amp (matrix m stage) and am unsure on something, the volume potentiometer on the actual td11, for optimum performance, should i max it out and only adjust the volume on the external amp or leave it at around lets say 3 o clock on the td11 and adjust the knobs on the m stage even further?

i feel like if its max volume it puts less of a strain on the m stage but on the other hand, i think running at max might make the signal run too hot so to speak and introduce clipping and such and the m stage would then be boosting a degraded signal, what do you think?