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grado sr60i cup tuning - Page 2

post #16 of 36

never heard the portas chris......but by adding some pressure to the kcs75's to simulate what a headband would do, changes the sound of the clip ons to more grado like upfrontness. Maybe that along with the non titanium driver in the portas would be the difference.  I did try the quarter mod on a set of 75's.  A little more upper end which is mabye not needed with the stock cable but nice with the mogami.

post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostMIDrange View Post

never heard the portas chris......but by adding some pressure to the kcs75's to simulate what a headband would do, changes the sound of the clip ons to more grado like upfrontness. Maybe that along with the non titanium driver in the portas would be the difference.  I did try the quarter mod on a set of 75's.  A little more upper end which is mabye not needed with the stock cable but nice with the mogami.

The drivers sound a good deal different. No sparkle, lots more low end. I actually couldn't pick much of a difference out between stock cable and silver on the portapros. I've yet to experience cable differences.
post #18 of 36
Thread Starter 

so theres bad news and good news.  bad news is that i tested the drivers out of their shells and in these 2 almost identical mahog shells and the drivers are a bit different.  one is a little bit cleaner and crisper where as the other sounds a bit darker and more worn in.  the overall difference is very small and mostly in the way that highs and mids are expressed, but although its small its there. about 1-2 % overall difference.  

the good news is that the new set of cups i turned out of just plain mahogany sound better in a good number of ways compared to my sr 225i's.  although the 225i's resolve the high end a bit better and have more texture to the highs,  my modified cone design once again beats out in the bass and mid range representation.  the highs feel less canned in and more airy and free.

 

 i really feel that the plastic enclosure is what holds the stock grado back from really being great headphones.  

i will also be getting another pair of sr 60's to help compare some more differences between cups and woods.  i've recieved almost all my wood including some burls and ebonies.  if it werent for a sad mishap at the lathe i would have had a nice set of cocobolos by now >.<  

 

here is a pic of the new mahog design which is brining me such joy right now

.IMAG0338.jpg

 

edit: wood impressions to come once i get some turned out.  i will also be tweaking my auditioning process with the addition of the new sr60.

 


Edited by MrHee - 4/9/12 at 1:17am
post #19 of 36

they look nice!

post #20 of 36
Thread Starter 

thanks man :)  

post #21 of 36

interesting keyboard too. What is it?

 

I'm using  a Model M atm. 

post #22 of 36
Thread Starter 

wow.  model m?  that thing is a relic!  buckling spring? how do they feel compared to the cherry blues?

 

i bought some filco majestouch's;  one with blues and one with browns.  i gave the blues to my dad.  he was trippin out at the retro feel of the clicky keys.  although i do like the click and tactility of the blues, the browns are more sensible for gaming and... room mates, which i will probably have since i'm going back to school in september.

 

diablo 3 is comming out soon! gotta have my leet peripherals :P.

post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHee View Post

wow.  model m?  that thing is a relic!  buckling spring? how do they feel compared to the cherry blues?

 

i bought some filco majestouch's;  one with blues and one with browns.  i gave the blues to my dad.  he was trippin out at the retro feel of the clicky keys.  although i do like the click and tactility of the blues, the browns are more sensible for gaming and... room mates, which i will probably have since i'm going back to school in september.

 

diablo 3 is comming out soon! gotta have my leet peripherals :P.

 

 

Manufactured May 6, 1988. It's as good as new. 

 

I couldn't say, I haven't tried out any of the fancy keyboards. Yet. 

 

Yeah, my roommate didn't mind much, but he was always wearing closed headphones.. good thing, with me using a model m and magnums. 

 

What keyboard do you guys put all these fancy switches and keysets on? I haven't done much research.

 

waay OT. lets take this to PM. lol

post #24 of 36
Thread Starter 

one wood down about 8 to go.  i just turned out a set of bocote cups.  amazingly striking wood. 

 

i compared them back to back with my mahogany cups, using the sr225i's as a reference point between the mahogany and bocote cups

 

the bocote was an extreme pain to work with as the fibers have a tendency to clump and want to chunk off.  much more hard and brittle grain compared to the mahog.  the bocote is denser and heavier overall as well

 

although the outer appearance is a different shape, the length and chamber dimensions are almost exactly the same as the mahogany.

 

the sound was relatively similar to the mahogany.  about a total of 1-3 percent change.  the difference was mostly in the high end representation.  the bocote came out a little bit splashy compared to the mahogany and also to the sr225i's.  less texture in vocals at the high end and the extreme of the highs can be somewhat piercing.  the bass also had slightly less impact compared to the mahog.  bass was still better than the stock sr225i

 

the main positive difference from the mahog is in the mid range.  a little more tight and a little more upfront.  oh ya and the look. these things are gorgeous 

IMAG0367.jpgIMAG0372.jpg


Edited by MrHee - 4/10/12 at 11:28am
post #25 of 36

I was gonna say, if you weren't.. Absolutely gorgeous. 

post #26 of 36

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post #27 of 36
Thread Starter 

testing was done this time around with single cup instant a/b and full headset comparisons on the sr60i drivers.

 

note: the chambers are all unfinished, sanded wood.  interestingly enough i found that i can further tune the cups by rubbing my fingers around the insides of the cups.  the oils from my hands press down some of the fibers left from sanding.  overall it shifts the focus a bit higher up on the frequency response.  bass gets tighter. highs get crisper and splashier


note: the driver difference of my sr 60i's is about half of the amount of difference created by the wood. one driver is a little brighter and more straight forward in the highs and mids. one driver is a bit softer and more laid back in its presentation.  i had to take this into account when doing the single cup a/b, but it told me more about the cups as i listened with a more thoughtful mind.

tiger maple (curly maple)
IMAG0386.jpg
tiger maple is a strange way to narrow down a wood for cup tuning.  the term tiger maple describes only a particular aesthetic quality of a wide range of maples.

the maple i bought, was a highly figured tiger maple of about medium hardness.  very tight grain. closed pore. i would say it's about medium density as well.

the sound was interestingly enough very close to what i remember the mahogany to be.  I have been comparing with this one track that i find very difficult for headphones to reproduce. backlit by redrum on their album shinbigan to paradox, ripped in flac.  it has harsh striking guitar riffs with a very deep driving bass. intense drumming and extremely powerful and textured vocals.  all of this crashing in on the same beat.  the highs and mids are easiest to tell the difference as those are the ranges that the vocalist sings in.  on less definining more harsh highs, her voice tends to lose a certain push of throaty texture in her vocals.  

with that said, the highs are actually where these babies shine.  all of the texture in highs that i didnt have with the mahog were there.  it was even very close to the level of my 225i's which i also did almost instant comparisons with.  the bass was a bit tighter than the mahog as well. though the mahog's bass i felt went deeper.  the tiger maple in general had a colder sound to it than the mahog. much more reference if that is what you are going for.  overall though i like these better than the mahogany due to the reproduction of texture on the high end.

Redwood Lace Burl
IMAG0388.jpg
not very good.... at all.  but very enlightening.  the charactaristics of this wood are a little be different from most of my other woods.  it is extremely light.  very little density. closed pore and medium grain tightness.   very soft wood in comparison to the others that i have but have a very high breaking strength.  these things are super light... 

the sound was very splashy in the highs.  bass was loose and sloppy.  mid range also felt not very well defined and shifted too far toward the higher frequencies and very boomy and sloppy.  nothing really good about these. the sound really seemed all over the place.

i think the reason why they sounded this way was because of a combination of the density and pore type.

i find that generally with closed pores there is a shift in focus to the higher frequencies.  i think the density actually affects the weight of the sound.  although it sounds a little ridiculous,  i feel the density adds a sort of thickness and texture to the sound.  there does seem to be a sweet spot.  too light and you get this really uncontrolled all over the place sound.  with very dense you get coldness and lack of energy.  also , it seems to me that open pores preserve more sub bass but closed pores tighten the bass up.  

 

cocobolo

cocobolo.jpg

 

very nice wood!  a dream to work with and smells like roses when i turn it.

very dense wood.  probably the densest wood that i have.  closed pore, very smooth texture with fine grain.

 

the sound is very smooth and very tight.    these sound like a more reference version of the tigermaple with a slightly wider soundstage. every instrument has a good amount of separation but the sound blends perfectly together. no harsh sounding corners on positionings of instruments.  mids are very well controlled.  highs are textured and prominent but smooth and not splashy.  the bass is a little bit understated but well defined and punchy.  sub bass is there but they're definitely not bass monsters.  overall i find the sound a little bit too controlled, reference and cold for the sr 60i's.

 

the more i compare the sr 60i  to the 225 the more i see the flaws in the 60i.  the 60i arent the most resolving headphones.  they lack a certain character to the soundstage.  if i tune them to be reference and without color, more of the flaws of the 60i tend to pop out.  the sr 60i really shine when dealing with fun alive music.  music that isn't too complex and rich in tone but music that is meant to be played loud and felt.  because the soundstage is a bit smaller, everything sounds a bit more personal, and exciting.  trying to dull it down just shows the limitations of its soundstage.  now that i have done cocobolo comparisons on the sr225i i can definitely say that reference just doesnt suit the 60i's.  

 

 

this will be my final post on the sr60i cup tuning.  it has been an interesting journey so far.  i've learned a lot about wood and sound.  i definitely enjoy the process.  its interesting to see how shapes and textures of materials affect the shape and texture of sounds.  to wrap it all up i'm going to give my conclusion about the sr 60i's in fwj.  Overall, its definitely worth it in respects to sound.  the best bang for your buck is definitely to be had.  i have found that if i tune for the 60i's strong points, i get a headphone that rivals the stock 225i's.  they definitely do have a different sound to them, but for the pure enjoyment of music, the sr 60i's with wooden cups would delight a great many people for many hours.  the woods i prefer for the 60i's are around the middle weight middle density wood with either softer grain or porus grain.  the mahogany actually turned out to be one of the best sounding imo along with the tigermaple.  the tigermaple definitely sounded a bit more refined imo, and i'm leaning more toward the tigermaple for the resolution that the closed pores bring.  but the bass on the mahog along with the mid range was just too fun not to note.  the cocobolo killed a lot of the fun of the 60i's and is definitely suited to more refined drivers.

i will be continuing my cup tuning pursuits in the near future.  i will soon be ordering 2 sets of magnums to do more comparisons on.  i have a few more woods to test but judging by the woods i have used i think i can get a pretty good grasp of what they sound like and how they need to be shaped to get the best balance of sound.  for the tests i tried to keep the inside shape relatively the same. i did this by measuring the diameter of the opening of the coned cup to the same diameter each time. the inner diameter of the base of the cone is set by my forstner bit.

 

tigermaple.jpgIMAG0427.jpgIMAG0428.jpg

take it easy guys, see you again real soon!

post #28 of 36

cool to see you found some tiger maple. I think you will like that with the mags when you get them.  It's a great match ime...............don't forget the finish treatment if in fact you feel it's needed to prevent the wood from splitting. I say as long as you don't size the opening too small (i.e. so the driver is too tight) I'm not even sure a finish is needed. Just my opinion, but I would/have size 'em a touch loose and run a thin piece of tap around the driver to snug it up. Theoretically, the tape will serve as your humidity and temp buffer so the driver won't crack the wood.

post #29 of 36

By flaring out the cups do you lose any bass? as much of a negative effect as the standing waves have on the highs, I would think that on lower frequencies, the more open flared cups would prevent pressure loading for boosting bass impact.

 

I can't wait until I get to take fluid mechanics and I can actually do the math for this stuff.

post #30 of 36
Thread Starter 

i actually gain bass.  i think its because there's more chamber volume in the coned cups.  i noticed that when i didn't cone the cups, the longer the chambers were, the more the bass came forward but also the highs became more recessed. the highs sound the best somewhere between 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" total length. (edit: at this length, the bass and mids massively drop out. theyre tight but very thin sounding).  

 

i don't like the mids or bass at all without the cups coned.  although the straight chamber cups might have a bit tigther bass, it feels congested without the cups coned.  the mids also get some breathing room and have some space to really shine after i cone the cups.  i feel that without coning the cups the mids and highs become veiled and muddled. and although the cone increases bass presence, it does lose a little bit of the tightness.


Edited by MrHee - 5/5/12 at 1:03pm
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