Schiit Owners Unite - Page 77

The main tell tale assuming it's wear, is the gain starts to drop as does speed.  Ie on a tester the output isn't as high as it should be.

This valhalla can drive my lcd2.  I though valhalla can't drive the ortho cans.

Where did I get that idea...just beautiful

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyrill 

what exactly does the tube do to make you know that it is reached its whatever thousand hours of life expectancy?>

 

if it is indeed 100% the claimed hours,it wouldbe at least a year or too.. but i have had my lyr for a good year, a lot of listening, but certainly not a regular 10 hours a day every day...some days it is 16 hours a day,some zero for sure.

The number of "hours" stated are a statistical estimate expressed in "MTBF" , or mean time between failure.

A manufacture performs tests on their product and bases their MTBF ratings on the number of failures out of a sample.

Statistics being statistics you could be very lucky and have a tube last 20,000 hours or unlucky and only last 500.

Death may be catastrophic or gradual.  But they will die.

It's "YMMV"

  Dear iamnothim:

    That being said regarding statistics and "MTBF", are there specific tube types and or tube manufacturers which have better/more reliable "MTBF"  stats, and/or perhaps publish standard deviations along with their "MTBF" stats???.  I am a very happy HD650 owner, who has driven them with a 15+ year old Headroom portable Traveler(?) amp...and continuing to consider the Lyr as a significant upgrade, but have no experience with tube gear, and still a little leary about dealing with tubes/tube life expectancy, etc...

    Thank you.

  Sincerely,

  T.A. Kogstrom    

Rely on tube testers or tube's that test good.

Other than that, it's kind of a crapshoot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synergist969 

  Dear iamnothim:

 

    That being said regarding statistics and "MTBF", are there specific tube types and or tube manufacturers which have better/more reliable "MTBF"  stats, and/or perhaps publish standard deviations along with their "MTBF" stats???.  I am a very happy HD650 owner, who has driven them with a 15+ year old Headroom portable Traveler(?) amp...and continuing to consider the Lyr as a significant upgrade, but have no experience with tube gear, and still a little leary about dealing with tubes/tube life expectancy, etc...

 

    Thank you.

 

  Sincerely,

  T.A. Kogstrom    

Just saw dox post above......  He knows...  A bunch

First off there is this thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/5070#post_9096983  where all of us tube junkies hang and tell tales of chasing the unicorn tube for the perfect sound signature.   Many hundreds of dollars are flushed pursuing this myth.  Vintage tubes are like wine for the ears.

I absolutely love my Lyr, I've never owned anything else, hence I can't comment on other amps.  Strike that, my M&M come in next week for a second system.

Tubes, as far as I know there are only a handful of companies making tubes today.  Most are for guitar amps.  Audiophile amps use vintage tubes.  As in made in 1965.  There are "NOS" (New Old Stock) tubes available from around the world.  There are also used tubes.  We rely on the tube sellers test equipment readings to get an idea how good a tube is. For us tube rollers, the gain is worth the potential pain.

Tube life, back to the wine analogy, you get a bad bottle every now and then, with good tube venders you can send them back in a reasonable time period.  Which I think is crazy considering it a 50 year old piece of electronics.  A very subjective answer to your question...and I'm pretty new to the tubes (6DJ8 / ECC88 / 6922) in a Lyr...... I have not seen any posts on the thread saying "my tubes gave out today".  I would recommend you ask.  There are guys there with 100 sets.

It is counterintuitive to think that a piece of 50 year old electronics sounds better than something made more recently.  Some say it's due to the quantity of rare earth metals used back then.  I am reading tech info in an attempt to understand tubes better.  Strike that, to understand tubes at all.

I cannot express how sweet vintage tubes make a Lyr sound.  Tubes are the hobby within the hobby.  It's an adventure finding these rare gems.  I answered a PM yesterday asking about some 1967 Amperex Orange Globes from Heerlen Netherlands.   Price $70.  I can't think of a single component / accessory near a price of $70 that will produce the sonic improvements of those tubes.

Life of tubes:  A lot of these tubes were made for test equipment and military applications.  These applications demanded long life and very high quality standards.  Not sure how old you are.... I'm old and can remember the TV repair guy coming over to test and replace tubes in our monolithic Admiral TV.   The Lyr tubes were used more in test equipment.  They are "pre-Amp" control tubes, not "Power" tubes, hence a longer life span…  YMMV

The Schiit web site quotes a 90 day tube warranty, 5000 MTBF for NOS tubes.  A replacement set is $20.  These sound amazing to many many folks and they stay with stock.  But if the tube crack dealer knocks… you have no idea.  This is what is so dang cool about the Lyr.  It's a whole lot of fun.

Another plus is it's hybrid design.  The tubes are only used for the pre-amp stage.  The power amp is Solid State.  There is a lot of horsepower under the hood.

As I stated before you can get some amazing tubes for $70  I have some I paid $300.  There are crazy $500 - $700 - $1000 sets.

Those will have a more of a novelty value.  IMO the sonics will improve marginally.  Then there's finding something great for a very low price.   Sadly, that's not me.

It's a big boy hobby, but a lot of fun rolling in one type then changing to another.

Sorry to ramble on…. hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmahler2u 

This valhalla can drive my lcd2.  I thought valhalla can't drive the ortho cans.

Where did I get that idea...just beautiful

Right on.    

  Dear iamnothin and paradoxper:

    Thank you for your candid advice.  YES, I AM old enough to remember my father extracting tubes out of our old wood clad Motorola televidion, or was that a Zenith that followed that...(and jumping/cursing when he would accidentally brush his hand against a capacitor tube), and hauling them down to ye old neighborhood drugstore tube testing machine...green-, YELlow-, RED-, was fun for me press the "test" button and watch the guage needle. 

    I will indeed begin reading/re-reading the tube rolling thread with increased vigor and scrutiny,... seems I am coming semi-full circle, my father begining my awareness of audio tubes with his "Award Series" Harman-Kardon control amp back in the early/mid sixties...

    No need to apologize for the rambling...indicates to me that you are really thinking about the answer, and following that stream of conciousness that is so vital to us "vintage" folks...lol...Like to hear inrtospective speculation so long as it is anounced/qualified as such...

    I feel as though I am about to plunge into that perilous, bottomless abyss that is tube equipment...obsessive/compulsive pursuit of vitreous perfection, and the attendant emotional agonization when things just don't quite sound "right"...lol...

    Thank you gentlemen for providing me a reason to lose my reason......

  Sincerely,

  T.A.Kogstrom          

Awesome T.A.! Er, I didn't mean that. Honestly, I feel sorry for you. But I want to wish you good luck! Eat a good meal before entering the Lyr thread..cus uh, your wallet will be empty. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synergist969 

  Dear iamnothin and paradoxper:

 

    Thank you for your candid advice.  YES, I AM old enough to remember my father extracting tubes out of our old wood clad Motorola televidion, or was that a Zenith that followed that...(and jumping/cursing when he would accidentally brush his hand against a capacitor tube), and hauling them down to ye old neighborhood drugstore tube testing machine...green-, YELlow-, RED-, was fun for me press the "test" button and watch the guage needle. 

 

    I will indeed begin reading/re-reading the tube rolling thread with increased vigor and scrutiny,... seems I am coming semi-full circle, my father begining my awareness of audio tubes with his "Award Series" Harman-Kardon control amp back in the early/mid sixties...

 

    No need to apologize for the rambling...indicates to me that you are really thinking about the answer, and following that stream of conciousness that is so vital to us "vintage" folks...lol...Like to hear inrtospective speculation so long as it is anounced/qualified as such...

 

    I feel as though I am about to plunge into that perilous, bottomless abyss that is tube equipment...obsessive/compulsive pursuit of vitreous perfection, and the attendant emotional agonization when things just don't quite sound "right"...lol...

 

    Thank you gentlemen for providing me a reason to lose my reason......

 

  Sincerely,

  T.A.Kogstrom          

No apology needed.  I love nostalgia.

Welcome to The Ward.

Here's a link to a Dropbox with some tube documents...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/moq4g2gjnfeysps/rI_SEEqiG2