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SR009 / WES / BHSE / LL hit the mainstream - Page 4

post #46 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

The strangest thing, that review... because the BHSE is by far the more detailed and neutral of the two amps.  This is simply not a matter of opinion.  Treat the article with extreme skepticism. 

 

I owned WES #1, and while it is an interesting and unique experience, it is not suited to the 009s for the simple reason that blurring the world's most detailed headphones is counter productive (read: stupid).  I actually enjoyed the rolled off highs, slightly boomy midbass, and smoothness of the WES with the SR-Omega, and if you enjoy the more mellow hi-fi experience, the WES delivers.  However the 009s offer such incredible detail that it would be a shame to ruin that strength with the WES.  The BHSE delivers the neutral and detailed power these cans crave. 

 

 

Oh, and welcome to Head-Fi! 

 

 

it's funny...When I hear someone say that the BHSE is a very detailed and revealing amp, all I hear is others saying "Oh…i'm looking for musicality."  Now that a review calls the BHSE to be analog and musical, all I hear is people who want extreme detail retrieval :D :D :D  

 

Is it win-win or lose-lose? ;)  I'm just a half-empty skeptic.

HeadAmp Audio Electronics - home of the Pico and Gilmore amps.  Now with Audeze, Fostex, HiFiMAN, Sennheiser, and STAX.
Find us at www.HeadAmp.com

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post #47 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

The strangest thing, that review... because the BHSE is by far the more detailed and neutral of the two amps.  This is simply not a matter of opinion.  Treat the article with extreme skepticism. 

 

I owned WES #1, and while it is an interesting and unique experience, it is not suited to the 009s for the simple reason that blurring the world's most detailed headphones is counter productive (read: stupid).  I actually enjoyed the rolled off highs, slightly boomy midbass, and smoothness of the WES with the SR-Omega, and if you enjoy the more mellow hi-fi experience, the WES delivers.  However the 009s offer such incredible detail that it would be a shame to ruin that strength with the WES.  The BHSE delivers the neutral and detailed power these cans crave. 

 

 

Oh, and welcome to Head-Fi! 

 

I don't think my WES is a bad combo with the SR-009 at all, although with the SR-007 the highs are slightly dark and the mid-bass is slightly boomy. Mine is the pre-production review sample, without the SE inputs.  I do get more micro-detail from my KGSS and KGBH, but my WES is still very detailed.  My WES definitely does not ruin the strengths of the SR-009.  Could there be that big of a difference between my pre-prod unit and your #1 unit?

post #48 of 594

I cringe whenever I read the word "musicality" in the first place.  Since when is a blurred edge with attenuated bass "musical?"  I studied music theory, this was never taught.  Surely having a completely transparent amp is the best thing you can do for your music...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin w. View Post

 

it's funny...When I hear someone say that the BHSE is a very detailed and revealing amp, all I hear is others saying "Oh…i'm looking for musicality."  Now that a review calls the BHSE to be analog and musical, all I hear is people who want extreme detail retrieval :D :D :D  

 

Is it win-win or lose-lose? ;)  I'm just a half-empty skeptic.

post #49 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

  Surely having a completely transparent amp is the best thing you can do for your music...

 

 

Although I haven't studied about music, I do agree with El_Doug that the more transparent an amp can be the better, by being that  it'll deliver best whatever the source is producing, which is why the source is a huge part in an audio system. But this is only IMO


Edited by David1961 - 5/18/12 at 12:30am
post #50 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

I cringe whenever I read the word "musicality" in the first place.  Since when is a blurred edge with attenuated bass "musical?"  I studied music theory, this was never taught.  Surely having a completely transparent amp is the best thing you can do for your music...

 

 

That's crazy talk!!!  Not hearing the music for distortion is the only way to go!!!  redface.gif

 

That review is a joke IMO, written by people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about.  Might actually be worse than 6moons and Gutenberg but I try not to read those for the sake of my own health... 

post #51 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

 

That's crazy talk!!!  Not hearing the music for distortion is the only way to go!!!  redface.gif

 

That review is a joke IMO, written by people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about.  Might actually be worse than 6moons and Gutenberg but I try not to read those for the sake of my own health... 


So you disagree with the conclusion that the BHSE + SR-009 is the best headphone system they have heard, or you just don't like the 6 Pages that lead up to it? gs1000.gif

HeadAmp Audio Electronics - home of the Pico and Gilmore amps.  Now with Audeze, Fostex, HiFiMAN, Sennheiser, and STAX.
Find us at www.HeadAmp.com

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post #52 of 594

I know the question wasn't for me, but that. And the first review in the series biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin w. View Post
[...] or you just don't like the 6 Pages that lead up to it? gs1000.gif

 

 

El_Doug's right; why bother with the SR-009 if a laid back, smoothed over sound character is what one's after.

post #53 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson View Post

El_Doug's right; why bother with the SR-009 if a laid back, smoothed over sound character is what one's after.

 

Same reason I cringe when I hear what people plug the HD800 into.  Better to just get a DT880 or HD650 and pay down the house.

post #54 of 594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

That review is a joke IMO, written by people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about. 

Glad to see that your famed diplomacy and respectfulness is still going strong wink.gif.

 

I don't know the two reviewers involved, but I think that this series of reviews has been fairly well balanced and informed as a whole. A lot better balanced than many forum comments.

For me, the jury is still out as to which conclusion is right or wrong. There could be a number of explanations to explain the differences.

 

Maybe Woo got fed up of hearing headfier comments that his WES was too soft and soggy, and so deliberately voiced his current WES to be a bit sharper - by choice of upgrade tubes and caps or whatever. Maybe Justin's recent enhancements have softened up the BHSE sound? Bring on another footer debate!

Maybe the sound has never changed and it's just this bubble effect that Justin mentioned earlier?

 

Whatever, I'm looking forward to how the LL fares - considering the strongly opposing comments it's received from various quarters so far.

post #55 of 594

Anybody who thinks that is a good review should read the pre-2000 stuff done in Stereophile of the headphones people still lust for.  SR-Omega vs. HE90 and HE60 vs. ESP950 are very well done.  A fun fact, I owned once that very SR-Omega they used for the review and I still own the drivers...  redface.gif

 

The thought of specially tweaked amps for review is so dishonest that I don't even want to think about it.  I'm very familiar with the WES circuit (hell all the circuits you mentioned) and no capacitor will alter how it sounds.  One would have to change the operating point for the tubes or the tube loads to get a meaningful change. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin w. View Post


So you disagree with the conclusion that the BHSE + SR-009 is the best headphone system they have heard, or you just don't like the 6 Pages that lead up to it? gs1000.gif

 

It's the endless filler which annoys me.  If this is the end result well then start with that and use those 6 pages to prove said point. 

 

Well that and it should be BHSE+007Mk1 but that's just me. 

post #56 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

Same reason I cringe when I hear what people plug the HD800 into.  Better to just get a DT880 or HD650 and pay down the house.

 



Good point. Over on audiogon, you never hear about driving really good speakers with some Best Buy receiver, but some complain about about high end headphones with equivalent headphone amps.

The high end headphones have all the technology and engineering of the best speakers out there (and then some). The principle of garbage in garbage out is just as true with a one-pound pair of phones

as with any speakers.

(And the same goes for some basic DACs or CD/DVD players.)


Edited by rgs9200m - 5/19/12 at 11:38am
post #57 of 594

Weird.

Currently owning both the WES and the BHSE, and reading the sentence below from AVGUIDE's review, I think it's the opposite... Something is wrong with my ears I guess wink_face.gif.

 

"Given that the WES is quite good but not perfect, you will want to consider how the WES compares to other electrostatic headphone amps. While we haven’t completed our work on this, we would say that the Woo majors in clarity and dynamics, the Head Amp Blue Hawaii SE majors in harmonic richness and warmth"

 

Disregarding the review, and trusting my ears, both are excellent amps, but the BHSE excepcionally drives both the 007 (plenty of power and very deep bass, unlike the WES) and the 009, that's why it would be my choice from the two. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post

High End headphone systems seem to becoming more accepted in the mainstream hifi press at an accelerated rate. Here's a link to AVGUIDE's review of the WES: Woo Audio WES Electrostatic Headphone Amplifier (Playback 54).

 

There's a review of the SR009 in the same edition. The most interesting thing about this is that they are using the SR009 as the start of a 3-way comparison of the WES against BHSE and Liquid Lightning. I usually take magazine reviews with a pinch of salt, but having a comparison review has got my attention - so much more useful than the usual gushing rave review with insufficient reference points.

 

So far, only the WES is covered in detail, but this snippet below almost made me fall out of my chair:

 

"Given that the WES is quite good but not perfect, you will want to consider how the WES compares to other electrostatic headphone amps. While we haven’t completed our work on this, we would say that the Woo majors in clarity and dynamics, the Head Amp Blue Hawaii SE majors in harmonic richness and warmth, and the Cavalli Liquid Lightning falls somewhere in the middle."

 

The above sound signatures of the WES v BHSE is the exact opposite of what I've read so far on head-fi. I'm intrigued to see how the next installment goes. 


Edited by ericohgb - 6/18/12 at 8:25am
post #58 of 594

Headfier IanG who lives a couple of miles from me is visiting my place with his LL + SR-007mk1's on Monday, that way the same source will be used on his LL and my BHSE. Both amps will be used with both my SR-009's + his 007's so the time difference between the listening  will be short, that way the recall will be easy. It'll be interesting to hear how both amps make both headphones sound. Obviously I know how the BHSE makes the SR-009's sound and I'm very impressed, but volume on some of my CD's is an issue. 

post #59 of 594

Awesome. I look forward to your impressions.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David1961 View Post

Headfier IanG who lives a couple of miles from me is visiting my place with his LL + SR-007mk1's on Monday, that way the same source will be used on his LL and my BHSE. Both amps will be used with both my SR-009's + his 007's so the time difference between the listening  will be short, that way the recall will be easy. It'll be interesting to hear how both amps make both headphones sound. Obviously I know how the BHSE makes the SR-009's sound and I'm very impressed, but volume on some of my CD's is an issue. 

post #60 of 594

Headfier IanG visited my place yesterday evening along with his LL + SR-007mk1's to which we listened to both his 007's and my 009's driven by his LL + my BHSE. When first hearing the LL I have to say I'm quite impressed with how it made both headphones sound, but the 009's sounded better of the two. I felt the same about the BHSE, the 009's were more detailed and transparent than the 007's but like some headfiers have said volume is an issue with the 009's driven by the BHSE. About volume, when using the 009's with the BHSE my optimum level is between 11 and 12 o'clock but with the 007's I could easily go beyond 2 o'clock. The LL is a different matter, with the 009's it's around 3 o'clock but 007's is between 4 and 5 o'clock to get the same volume  the BHSE gives at 2 o'clock. Build quality, I went for the $6000 version of the BHSE and it was worth that on build quality alone, I've no comment about the LL's build quality other than the fact that it's headphone sockets are extremely tight, when I tried to unplug my 009's from it I was afraid the pins were going to stay in it's socket. If it was only down to sound quality, I would have strongly considered buying the LL if I didn't have the BHSE, but other things about it would deter me.

 

                                                         Dave.

 

P.S. The 009's when at the right volume with the BHSE, meaning not too loud, for me give the best SQ I've ever heard. 


Edited by David1961 - 7/24/12 at 4:24am
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