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SR009 / WES / BHSE / LL hit the mainstream - Page 2

post #16 of 594


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seacard View Post

It definitely is -- I'm looking forward to seeing the evidence as well. I was just trying to make an inside joke; not sure if it came across clearly in the post.
 



Yeah, it did, I just didn't include a smiley smile.gif. Sorry about that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

the LL has been reverse-engineered, and to be fair seems to be different enough from the 323 (though with the same underlying design) - it seems to have different current sources, and uses mosfets in the intermediate stages.  Not a bad amp at all!  $4k seems a bit steep, but then you have people who say the A10 is worth all $6500...



Honestly, it's hard to convince oneself that anything up in these figures is truly worth all the dollars they command. Which is why going used is a great option, but since WESs, LLs, and BHSEs don't go up for sale used hardly it all, it makes one want to be super diligent with his choices. Thanks for the 411, El Doug.

$4k is indeed steep, though it's at least a grand under the other offerings in the same league. Lots of ogling and pondering left though.

post #17 of 594

the worst part is that when a BHSE does come up used, they cost even more - the most recent guy is asking something around $6800 iirc
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by obzilla View Post

 

Honestly, it's hard to convince oneself that anything up in these figures is truly worth all the dollars they command. Which is why going used is a great option, but since WESs, LLs, and BHSEs don't go up for sale used hardly it all, it makes one want to be super diligent with his choices. Thanks for the 411, El Doug.

$4k is indeed steep, though it's at least a grand under the other offerings in the same league. Lots of ogling and pondering left though.



 

post #18 of 594

The AVGuide review doesn't mention what source component they're using. Inquiring minds would like to know!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post
the worst part is that when a BHSE does come up used, they cost even more - the most recent guy is asking something around $6800 iirc

 

If you're referring to Audiofiler's ad, he's also including his Stax OII MKI and an extra set of tubes on an Alps RK50 version of the BHSE ($6K), so $6800 sounds very reasonable if you ask me. $6800 actually sounds low - was that supposed to be $7800?


Edited by Asr - 3/11/12 at 10:05pm
post #19 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

The AVGuide review doesn't mention what source component they're using. Inquiring minds would like to know!
 

 

If you're referring to Audiofiler's ad, he's also including his Stax OII MKI and an extra set of tubes on an Alps RK50 version of the BHSE ($6K), so $6800 sounds very reasonable if you ask me. $6800 actually sounds low - was that supposed to be $7800?


Well if you ask me $6800 sounds high for that used combo, and It would seem others think the same because so far its still for sale.

Justin is selling 45 new bhse whenever he gets around to completing them, and a promise of a new batch to follow this summer. And lets face it, chances are not everyone that gets the bhse in these upcoming batches will really like it, so they will want to bail.

 

post #20 of 594

I'm kinda surprised it's still for sale.  He could get about $1800 for a used O2 mk1, so you're essentially paying $5000 for a $6000 BHSE with no waiting as a bonus.

post #21 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post


Well if you ask me $6800 sounds high for that used combo, and It would seem others think the same because so far its still for sale.

Justin is selling 45 new bhse whenever he gets around to completing them, and a promise of a new batch to follow this summer. And lets face it, chances are not everyone that gets the bhse in these upcoming batches will really like it, so they will want to bail.

 


Of the 23 BHSEs shipped so far, only one has ever been returned, and then 2 months later that person asked if I still had the amp they sent back.  So i think that's pretty good

HeadAmp Audio Electronics - home of the Pico and Gilmore amps.  Now with Audeze, Fostex, HiFiMAN, Sennheiser, and STAX.
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post #22 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by justin w. View Post


Of the 23 BHSEs shipped so far, only one has ever been returned, and then 2 months later that person asked if I still had the amp they sent back.  So i think that's pretty good



Justin I am not questioning your return policy, whatever that policy is. All I am saying is that with maybe 90 more new bhse's being built and sold this year by you, there are probably going to be some selling the bhse. For whatever reason.

Just like there were a few artisans that were for sale not returned, for what ever reason.

 

imo the only problem I see with your amps, is that it takes you so long to complete them. Now that you are farming out your boards and other components of the bhse or so I read, it still seems to be over a year in some case's for folks to get there long anticipated bhse, come on man get cranking.wink_face.gif

post #23 of 594

he wanted 6800 for the BHSE alone - 8700 with the Mk1s
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rdling View Post

I'm kinda surprised it's still for sale.  He could get about $1800 for a used O2 mk1, so you're essentially paying $5000 for a $6000 BHSE with no waiting as a bonus.



 

post #24 of 594

That's ridiculous!

post #25 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

he wanted 6800 for the BHSE alone - 8700 with the Mk1s
 



 



Ok that makes more sense then.

post #26 of 594

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

he wanted 6800 for the BHSE alone - 8700 with the Mk1s

The $6800 included a quad of mullards.  
 

 

post #27 of 594

Gentlemen, I would like to comment here.

 

The schematic that was posted on another forum is not a reverse engineering of the pre-production LL. It is a 1-2 year old schematic that I probably shared with one or two people as I was thinking about how to do a stat amp. I don't have any idea how the schematic became available since I did not provide it to the individual who posted it.

 

As for the 323.

 

I have never seen a schematic of the 323 until the one that was posted following the post of the earlier "LL" schematic on the other forum.

 

But, if you think about this for a minute or two you will remember that there have not been a vast number of radically new designs in analog amps. Some, but not every amp that is released by all the manufactureres in the world is somehow a totally new design, totally different from anything that has preceded it (until class D).

 

Nearly every analog amp uses various common subcircuits: diff amps, current sources, current mirrors, vbe multipliers, gain stages of various types, followers, current stealers, cascodes, etc. The evolution of analog amps has frequently been where someone takes these basic elements, uses them in a way similar to prior art, but does something different in one part of the circuit and gets a better result. For example, there have probably been a "billion" discrete opamp power amps built in the last 4 decades. They are all similar, but many are different through one tweak or another another, with better or worse results.

 

I could argue that any amp that uses these basic building blocks is simply a retread of every amp that came before. In some sense this is true. After all, what's new in that amp that we haven't seen before? It has a diff amp front end, a gain stage, followers for the output, it therefore must be a copy of a previous amp. Every stat amp whose schematic I have seen uses these basic building blocks. So what's new? Yet, I think, for example, that the KGSS is a very clever design. Always have. It deserves its reputation. But it uses all of these subcircuits. :)

 

So I don't get what the big huff is about. The LL is similar to stat amps that have preceded it. How could it not be, it uses all the same building blocks? There are only a few ways to build a stat amp with currently available components and once you choose a way, there is prior art.

 

OTOH, I think that the LL is different enough to be a worthy addition to the marketplace and will, hopefully, suit some people better than the other offerings that are available. It has 400V rails and can swing as much voltage as other amps in that class.

 

But, let us not lead others inadvertently into the thought that somehow the LL is just a ripoff of a prior stat amp. In that case all the stat amps are ripoffs to some degree or another, except for the very first one. But, I don't think this way (unless someone has seen the prior art and literally copies it). I just see amps that are variations of one kind or another trying to find a place with customers who like them. And not find a place with those who don't. :)

 

Finally, I am about to finish one or two more pre-production LLs that will look exactly like the real production amp and whose PS and amp sections will be identical to the production amp. I have been planning to post interior pics of this amp on the website when I have them. I still plan to. :)

Dr. Cavalli gained notoriety with his first DIY amplifier projects. His success has blossomed into Cavalli Audio, a world leader in amplifier design.
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post #28 of 594
Thread Starter 

I think this big huff is about people showing off inside their bubble.

 

I've never quite understood how anyone can confidently state exactly what is right or wrong about an amp, and what it is going to sound like, simply by looking at a photograph.

 

The devil is in the detail,  so it's wrong to prejudge anything until you actually try it.

 

BTW, it's good to have the manufacturers chipping into the conversation.

 

post #29 of 594

 

Quote:
Nearly every analog amp uses various common subcircuits: diff amps, current sources, current mirrors, vbe multipliers, gain stages of various types,...

http://audio.fam-gelder.nl/index.php/artikelen/31-alan-kimmels-mu-stage/55-why-use-the-kimmel-mu-stage.html

 

 

Sorry to trot this out again, but this is a prior art that I don't see nearly enough. I own some outstanding examples of it, wrought by the hands of the author. He has developed all solid state power amps using it too, for Modwright. When it can produce a simple, low cost preamp with 30dB of voltage gain using no feedback and producing no audible distortion, I wonder why I do not see it more often. Clever circuits trump lesser designs with expensive parts every time.


Edited by Clarkmc2 - 3/12/12 at 11:33pm
post #30 of 594

the Koss E/90 amp would be one of the "most different" topology wise - Class AB bias complementary push-pull mosfet common source output vs mostly single ended Class A with resistor or at best ccs

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