Sennheiser Amperiors? - Page 44

Just wondering if the amperior is better with sound quality/practicality than the hd 598's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangotherabbit 

Just wondering if the amperior is better with sound quality/practicality than the hd 598's.

Better practicality, since the hd598 are not portable at all.

But I doubt for the sound.

You may hear better bass impact for the amperior, but you'll get better soundstage, and more refined sound overall on the hd598.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis 

Wow I know everyone's hearing is different I have not yet heard the Amperior but got to listen to HD-25-ii's last week and feel that they are not that harsh or sloppy on bass as you say.  The dt1350's are good but I can recognize they are artificial in the mids which may on the surface make them sound edgier and lively in comparison.  Then again based on what I've heard the dt1350's sound can vary wildly from pair to pair.

Never heard the HD-25s with big orchestras? What I hear it is confusion really. However I do agree with you on the "variation from natural" timbre that the DT1350 deliver, but hey if they would have got right even the timbre in a such small earcup, they should have won a Nobel prize :). Regarding the bass of the HD-25 for me it is sloppy relatively to the DT1350s, it doesn't go as deep and it is not as tight as the DT1350 and then (still to my ears obviously) it is accentuated in the range 70-90 Hz, but it is still one of the best headphones that one can buy in terms of bass response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis 

Wow I know everyone's hearing is different I have not yet heard the Amperior but got to listen to HD-25-ii's last week and feel that they are not that harsh or sloppy on bass as you say.  The dt1350's are good but I can recognize they are artificial in the mids which may on the surface make them sound edgier and lively in comparison.  Then again based on what I've heard the dt1350's sound can vary wildly from pair to pair.

If you like the HD25/Amperior, you will love the PSB M4U1 or M4U2.  They have a similar signature and do EVERYTHING better- clarity, detail, bass, volume, etc.

I owned the DT1350s and Amperiors. Liked both, but the DT1350s lost out. The instrument timbres just sounded much more natural on the Amperiors and the DT1350s don't have the sparkle in the highs that the Amperiors do. The DT1350s can fool you with its perceived accurate sound, but careful listening points out that something is missing in the upper midrange - lower treble region.

I want to hear the PSBs. Do they have them in stores, or do you have to buy them to listen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 

I owned the DT1350s and Amperiors. Liked both, but the DT1350s lost out. The instrument timbres just sounded much more natural on the Amperiors and the DT1350s don't have the sparkle in the highs that the Amperiors do. The DT1350s can fool you with its perceived accurate sound, but careful listening points out that something is missing in the upper midrange - lower treble region.

 

I want to hear the PSBs. Do they have them in stores, or do you have to buy them to listen?

Most high end audio stores that sell PSB speakers are likely to carry the M4U2 so I would suggest looking for an authorized PSB dealer in your area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangotherabbit 

Just wondering if the amperior is better with sound quality/practicality than the hd 598's.

The 598s are certainly cheaper.  Portability is something best left to dreams when it comes to the 598s.  The long cable, open back design, and larger sizer don't make for good walking around cans.  The Amperior is far more practical in this case.  Not quite as good a sound though.  Might overtake the 598 in bass, but the sound stage and overall quality I find to be better in the 598.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMushroom 

 

The 598s are certainly cheaper.  Portability is something best left to dreams when it comes to the 598s.  The long cable, open back design, and larger sizer don't make for good walking around cans.  The Amperior is far more practical in this case.  Not quite as good a sound though.  Might overtake the 598 in bass, but the sound stage and overall quality I find to be better in the 598.  

I've seen a few pairs of HD598's in public regardless. Certainly an eye catcher if that's your thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craigster75 

If you like the HD25/Amperior, you will love the PSB M4U1 or M4U2.  They have a similar signature and do EVERYTHING better- clarity, detail, bass, volume, etc.

I see, the looks of the PSB's threw me for a curve (kinda "beats" like) but I would like to hear them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craigster75 

Most high end audio stores that sell PSB speakers are likely to carry the M4U2 so I would suggest looking for an authorized PSB dealer in your area.

Thanks! I'll try and find one around here to listen and will report back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMushroom 

 

The 598s are certainly cheaper.  Portability is something best left to dreams when it comes to the 598s.  The long cable, open back design, and larger sizer don't make for good walking around cans.  The Amperior is far more practical in this case.  Not quite as good a sound though.  Might overtake the 598 in bass, but the sound stage and overall quality I find to be better in the 598.  

In an other hand the amperior might be more fun, or less boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 

I owned the DT1350s and Amperiors. Liked both, but the DT1350s lost out. The instrument timbres just sounded much more natural on the Amperiors and the DT1350s don't have the sparkle in the highs that the Amperiors do. The DT1350s can fool you with its perceived accurate sound, but careful listening points out that something is missing in the upper mid-range - lower treble region.

 

I want to hear the PSBs. Do they have them in stores, or do you have to buy them to listen?

I don't have long experience with the amperiors, but I tried to sweep a 20-20kHz signal through the HD-25 1 ii and I heard a very very strong peak between 7 and 8 kHz, I did the same with the DT1350s and the Audeze LCD-2 and to my ears they are fairly flat from the bottom to the top of the spectrum. This is also confirmed (to my ears obviously) when I listen to female voices, there is an horrible sibilance that I can't tolerate. I quickly auditioned the amperiors in a shop for half an hour and they had the same issue. I also compared the DT1350 and the HD-25 1 ii with my Genelec monitors, the DT1350 sounded almost the same in terms of frequency response, just a tad less high frequencies, the HD-25s definitely sounded ways brighter in comparison. Taking in account that the amperiors have the same drivers and the same cup shape I suppose they should have the same problem to my ears. Obviously this can be totally subjective (because of the ear canal resonances). What I think instead is an objective advantage of the DT1350 over the Amperior/HD-25 1 ii drivers is the amount of precise and clear sound that the DT1350s can deliver, even with orchestras the separation is great (this really amazes me), I can't say the same for the amperiors and the HD-25s. I also tested the timbre of my acoustic guitar through the DT1350, it does sound a bit closed, but definitely the timbre is there, almost like when I hear it naturally, I can say the same for violins that I know very well in "real life", but again this can be very subjective due to the ear canal/brain frequency response. However after reading many reviews and comparisons between the two types of headphones, I find my sensations well aligned to a significant amount of other people out there. I do like the punch and the timbre of the HD-25s and I reckon that they are a great achievement from Sennheiser, especially considering the fact that in a way or another they have been around now for almost two decades I think. I have to say that I also found to say the least "not serious" from Sennheiser the fact that for two times they just did cosmetic changes of the HD-25s without substantial improvement of the driver's technology and in the case of the Amperiors they basically doubled the price (this is ridiculous), I don't want even mention the Adidas version overpriced that way for some addition of ink and colour. I fear that this famous company is taking a direction that doesn't go towards sound quality improvement and research, I think we have to thank for this Dr. Dre & Co and their "sound doesn't count if my headphones are cool" market.

Breaking walls of text into paragraphs makes posts easier to read

Innerfidelity's measurements disagree with yours, and what my ears tell me is more in line with their measurements on the DT1350 and Amperior. You should check it out.

I compared the Amperiors and DT1350s pretty thoroughly when I had them, and I like them both. But the lack of treble sparkle in the DT1350s became very apparent when comparing the two. Sibilance on the Amperior was not a deal killer. In fact, its really not an issue for me. The bass quantity was a little much. It was the most bothersome part of the Amperior. What made the Amperior preferable to the DT1350 along with the sparkle in the treble was the accurate timbre on the instruments. It was VERY apparent when A/Bing both headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 

Breaking walls of text into paragraphs makes posts easier to read

 

I would have settled for a few periods thrown in here and there 

 oops sorry you are right! Way too long and confused reply.

I should point out that those are just the impressions of my ears, I conceive headphones like the actual manufactured device plus one's personal hearing system (ear canal + pinnae, for over ear cans "just" the ear canal). This doesn't mean that badly designed and built headphones should sound good for somebody and bad for somebody else. The Amperiors and the HD-25s are two examples of very good design and technology, both are extremely good cans for the range. So in this particular case our ear canals (notice the plural) does influence the frequency perception (especially between 4 kHz to 16 kHz) for this reason a good measurement from Tyll using a dummy head doesn't tell me the whole story about my frequency response and timbre perception, hence different opinions here on headfi like ours.

However, I think in our case we agree on few points (if I understand you correctly):

- The sennheiser and the beyerdynamic are very good cans in their range.

- The Amperior/HD-25 are both sibilant (are the DT1350 sibilant for you? definitely no for me).

- Too much bass for the Amperior (for me it also doesn't go as deep as the DT1350, in this case it is confirmed by Tyll's graph and for low frequencies such a graph for sure is quite objective).

We don't agree on the following points:

- The Amperior/HD-25 are too much sibilant for me, really annoying for female human voices (the consequence is a complete discrepancy of timbre between real life and sound through the cans).

- The timbre of the DT1350 for me is extremely clear and close to the real life, but I have to say that in some way is like listening to an instrument in a reverberant chamber while the timbre is still preserved, but this is altering the timbre anyway (in fact piano and bells sound very bad through the beyers) so I am not sure if we totally disagree on this issue.

- For me the lack of sparkle in the DT1350 it is very very light and this pays back wonderfully when listening to female voices. For you this is not the case, I understand it is too rolled off for you. 

P.S. I also would suggest you (if you have a chance) to compare the DT1350 using some good recording with some very good monitors, or even better with some real life music, usually headphone makers (and sound engineers) tend to emphasise the high frequency in order to overcome the lack of real life detail/transparency that only a few high-end headphones (and speakers) can deliver properly.