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Active Speakers/Monitors: Dispelling the ignorance, confusion and myths - Page 2

post #16 of 140

It's that the amplification decreases the avaible air space for the drivers, they only really overheat when there pushed it depends on the amp class and cooling class ab generates more heat than class d.

post #17 of 140

cheese.jpg

 

 

seriously, I'll consider active speakers once the manufactures offer custom internal wiring.

 

give me one good reason (other than - commercial endeavors; don't know any better, or that's how we're used to... yadda-yadda) why the majority or speakers are passive designed, if active is so much better.

 

perhaps those manufactures who build both active & passive would have some thoughts on it, but I'm not that interested to ask them.

 

good info though, thanks, I'm going to read it eventually.


Edited by Lenni - 3/13/12 at 10:03am
post #18 of 140

Custom internal wiring LOL , you can't even see the wiring so whats the point thats the most stupid reason against active speakers i've ever heard.

post #19 of 140
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

 

seriously, I'll consider active speakers once the manufactures offer custom internal wiring.


So would it be safe to conclude that you only buy passive loudspeakers from loudspeaker manufacturers that offer custom internal wiring? Or separate amplifiers only from amplifier manufacturers that offer custom internal wiring?

 

se

 

 

post #20 of 140

Do you also re wind the voice coil in your custom cable?.

post #21 of 140

Interessting read though the video by the meridian salesman is rubbish. He claims you need more power for a passive speaker because the energie get's seperated:O. As if the passive crossover runs at 200 degrees celcius or whateverXD. Moreover: "our speakers sound the same at any volume", take a look at this:

Fletcher-Munson.gif

 

A lineair spreaker sounds different at higher volumes due the response of the human ear.

 

Passive crossovers cause distortion but in +- 80 years of enginering they must be pretty good by now. If you make good drivers you can use a simple crossover because the drivers are designed to produce a specific range anyhow. With active speakers they to overcome the shortcomings of drivers by differing the phase of certain frequencies and equalizing resulting in more distortion. In my eyes the 'active speakers theory'  kind of claims that for instance the ipod buds could sound like the HD800's just by squeeze the driver in the right position. Personnaly I find the philosophy of a DAC --> energy producer --> electricity to sound converter(to put it in basic terms) more appealing to me than a DAC --> sound recreator(the black box). In the end it's all about the sound but with seperates the manufacturer has got to take care in producing good drivers and amps and with actives the manufacturer can tweak the sh*t out of them to make them sound good anyhow. If I had a blind check I am 99% certain I would buy seperates.

post #22 of 140

When you are dealing with bookshelf size speakers in nearfield monitoring applications, I agree with 90% of what has been shared here. 

 

Outside of that realm, things are not so simple, and the word "better" becomes a lot fuzzier.

post #23 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post


So would it be safe to conclude that you only buy passive loudspeakers from loudspeaker manufacturers that offer custom internal wiring? Or separate amplifiers only from amplifier manufacturers that offer custom internal wiring?

 

se

 

 


obviously not. main reason I don't have the fund for those expensive speakers/amps- but if I did I probably would. for example, Nola by Accent uses Nordost's to wire the internals of some of their speakers. if there was a manufacturer of active speakers that offered that option is something that personally would consider more.

 

you know, when I wrote that I already knew someone was gonna asking that kind of question...tongue.gif

 

post #24 of 140

So the most important part of a speaker is the wiring screw the drivers / enclosure it's all about the wiring lol.

post #25 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis View Post

How about low level hiss?  Premature failure from locked in heat?



Any mediocre amp--whether it's the amp inside an active speaker, or an outboard unit--will hiss.  Signal-to-noise ratios in a good active speaker will be negligible.

 

Premature failure?  Active speakers are designed and marketed mainly to the professional market where reliabilty and durability are important.  My present active setup is going on six years, and it has not suffered from your fabled "premature failure from locked in heat".  If an active monitor suffers from reliability problems, it will be quickly weeded out of the market due to the market incentive structure.

post #26 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

 

 

 

seriously, I'll consider active speakers once the manufactures offer custom internal wiring.

 

give me one good reason (other than - commercial endeavors; don't know any better, or that's how we're used to... yadda-yadda) why the majority or speakers are passive designed, if active is so much better.

 

 


Custom internal wiring, ha?  Yes, obviously you have identified the system components that truly matter for the efficient reproduction of accurate sound from a speaker.  Maybe you also want Intel to offer custom layout of the etching of the transistor pattern on the silicon substrate of their CPUs?

 

One reason passive designs are more widespread is the widespread ignorance--such as that displayed by your obsession with custom internal wiring--of active speakers, and the fact that the average consumer is a lot less informed about speaker design and performance than professionals for whom a speaker is a tool, not a toy.

 


Edited by Mauricio - 3/13/12 at 6:17pm
post #27 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmalden View Post

 

 

Passive crossovers cause distortion but in +- 80 years of enginering they must be pretty good by now. If you make good drivers you can use a simple crossover because the drivers are designed to produce a specific range anyhow. 


Oh yeah?  Please tell me the specific advances of the 80 years that have done away with the fundamental disadvantages of passive RLC (Resistor, Inductor, Capacitor) circuits.  This is a rather upside-down statement.  What you are asking us to take at your word is that in the last 80 years, active transistorized circuits have been displaced by passive RLC circuits.  In fact, it is the opposite that has happened since the invention of the transistor and the miniaturization of solid-state electronics.

 

Also, please explain how a good driver allows for a simple crossover.  I get a sense that your understanding of how a passive crossover works is rather tenuous.


Edited by Mauricio - 3/13/12 at 6:26pm
post #28 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstrain View Post

When you are dealing with bookshelf size speakers in nearfield monitoring applications, I agree with 90% of what has been shared here. 

 

Outside of that realm, things are not so simple, and the word "better" becomes a lot fuzzier.


Please explain how and why the technological superiorty and advantages of active system design disappear or are reduced as you scale up the system.  In other words, why do the laws of physics and electric and electronic circuit theory vary with the size of the speaker enclosure?

post #29 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post


Please explain how and why the technological superiorty and advantages of active system design disappear or are reduced as you scale up the system.  In other words, why do the laws of physics and electric and electronic circuit theory vary with the size of the speaker enclosure?



They don't, per se. What varies is what is available, at what price, and whether the percentage of difference made by using an active system remains constant as those things change. I think at the nearfield, monitor category, those benefits are huge when overcoming the limitations of small box/small driver issues. But once you have room to build the box to the required sizes/geometries, and can invest in seriously good crossover circuits (or none at all), and the right drivers (with room for them) those benefits become less of the overall picture.

 

I do not, for instance, know of very many active full size speakers, certainly none that fill the niches that maggies and ESL's fill... or once you have stepped into the mid-fi range (~10k) of the Thiel 3.7, and lower level Wilson Audio (Sophia tier), you start to get into some very very good speakers. So good, that I think you would be hard pressed to find actives to match them (Linkwitz Orion's being the only one I can think of). At these levels, the amount of improvement an active offers over the passive system represents a smaller and smaller overall change.

 

The ultra high end is entirely dominated by passives. This may be for any number of reasons, but I do not think that it is because they are inherently worse. You seem very defensive about this issue... relax, enjoy the music.


Edited by liamstrain - 3/13/12 at 7:14pm
post #30 of 140

With the small speakers the amp takes up space that could be used for airflow in a passive speaker the active speaker of the same size has less airflow space for the drivers, theres not really an advantage to either 1.

linkwitz orion maybe the behringers lol http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/177403-linkwitz-orions-beaten-behringer-what.html .

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