An audiophile and petrolhead's musings: in the hi-fidelity, first class, traveling set - Page 71

 

I'm so glad someone's finally said it. I'm tired of all the supposed car buffs at university ooing and ah-ing over these damn things. They're morbidly obese bubbles that go fast in a straight line, but that's it. That being said, if I was given one, I'd definitely drive it. Although given my options I'd opt for some of the classier cars in this thread.

 

That being said, my suggestion has got to be my personal favorite, the Lamborghini Miura

I haven't driven a new corvette or a viper, but the mid 70's corvettes were fun, but horrible cars. If they have any miles on them, they creak, groan & rattle just like every other American car of that era. The only one I would want is 2nd gen convertible - I do think those had style.





The Miura is very cool - it's just in the "unobtainable" category.

Excellent video from Jay Leno on one of his *two* Miura:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/lamborghini/1967-lamborghini-miura-p400/index.shtml#item=84564

It seems to be raining Veyrons in San Diego. This place has 3 for sale:
http://www.symbolicmotors.com/inventory-la_jolla-used_cars.html

They also have a Miura, but it's marked "Sale Pending"...

I'd appreciate if someone can enlighten me on this. Why is it that American car manufacturers have never really made good sports cars? Good muscle cars, yes, but I haven't really seen anything comparable to the European sports cars or even Japanese for that matter.

 

Is it because the public is not really interested? Or is it because the roads are mostly straight, so there's not really much of a need for good handling?

 

I mean, one one hand there are firms like Apple and Google, very innovative and good with design, whats going on with the Auto industry?

 

The only 'sportscar' that comes to mind is the Saleen S7.

Edited by proton007 - 11/21/12 at 7:40pm

Well 2 dollars down 1 million thirty thousand eight hundred and eighty six to go 

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Not sure what you mean, exactly. There's plenty of American sports sedans and tourers, but the RMR thing is fairly rare.

I would say it's more a combination of history and geography that dictates automobile design. There are considerable differences between Japan and the Japanese, and the USA and Americans. Europe is distinct from those two (and individual countries are unique; I don't mean to conflate all of Western Europe into one thing). What works in Japan won't necessarily work in the US, and what's popular in Japan isn't necessarily popular in the US. And vice versa. In other words, cars like Lincoln and Plymouth are distinctly American. Just like Honda and Daihatsu are distinctly Japanese.

It'll be a cold day in hell that I would call Apple or Google "very innovative" or "good with design" - what they *are* good at is creating "cool" and getting people to fork over hilarious sums of money for it. And Detroit does the same thing - they produce what will sell (or what they believe will sell), and therefore make them money. Of course legal regulations restrict their options, as do the limits of engineering and manufacturing (which can be financial or functional). Trucks and SUVs were the popular choice for a long time in the US (and have died out basically due to fuel prices); and you don't see many European or Japanese companies even producing such vehicles (sure, the Japanese tried really really hard to produce SUVs and trucks to get more market share in the US, but in most cases they're just taking a unibody car platform and lifting it and throwing a wagon body on it; and they perform about as well as you'd expect that to).


Vector, Ford, Dodge, Tesla, Panoz, DeLorean, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Plymouth, Shelby American, SSC, and probably some others I'm forgetting.

I think though, we're getting into a semantic problem - you say "sportscar" but based on Magick's response and your example, I think you mean "supercar."
Edited by obobskivich - 11/21/12 at 9:37pm

Hmm...those are the only companies I could think of. 

 

And yes, I mean supercars. 

 

Probably a matter of taste and culture as you say. Americans have a more modest automobile and racing history compared to the Europeans (For instance, a lot will consider F1 to be a snobbish sport for the rich with too much spare time on their hands).

And also probably because American brands are much more contained within the domestic economy, so not much of a global presence.

 

@ MagickMan

Now that you mention it, I do recognize a lot of the brands, but through very non conventional media....Its pretty strange I didn't see any of those cars on the American Top Gear....they all had European supercars.

It also seems that the European supercar brands have penetrated the US, and the reverse has not happened (I've seen Ford, Viper, Corvette, Mosler and Saleen only in GT racing).

Edited by proton007 - 11/21/12 at 9:58pm

 

I'm not sure I agree that they've died out. Maybe it's my location in the northeastern part of the US, (where at least up until the last couple years we used to get a lot of snow) but I still see a crapload of trucks and SUVs every day.

A sports car is like pron - I know it when I see it...

Without getting into the semantics arguments, the *major* US manufacturers largely ignored the traditional European "sports cars" that trace their roots to race cars built for European road races like Le Mans. If you look at the history of racing, the Europeans started with road races and races between cities. On the other hand, the US went for oval racing using racetracks that were originally built for horse racing. For whatever reason, throughout the 30s->40s->50s the US cars just kept getting bigger & heavier and with ever bigger engines - just like our houses, our hamburgers and everything else. I think the other thing to remember is that in the 30s/40s/50s, it was very expensive to bring a car across the ocean. The few cars that were brought to the US were the high-end cars like a Rolls.

Also, don't forget the influence of WW I and WW II. Small European sports cars were not "American". There were plenty of stereotypical "French guy" or "Italian Guy" depictions in 50's cartoons - and they always wore a beret and drove a small sports car.

I suspect that in the US, when we were finally ready for a smaller, more fun car, the "pony car" was invented. That class of vehicle essentially covered the market segment that might have been sold a British or Italian sports car - and the pony car was much cheaper and available at your local car dealer, not at some "foreign" dealer that might only be found in a larger city.

I always watched Magnum with my mom when I was growing up...lol. She liked Magnum, and I liked the car, the girls, and the guns...

I think I went many years before I ever saw a 308 with the roof panel installed.

Did you quiz the owner on the condition of the undercarriage? I'm also a little leery of cars from states that get real snow.

I would not say that Americans have a "modest" automobile or racing history - it's just different, as billy alluded to. American motorsports are very different than what you might find elsewhere in the world, but there is very much a "car culture" within the US that doesn't exist elsewhere; again, different cultures and different artefacts. I've heard the F1 vs NASCAR (or IndyCar) argument before, and it's not somewhere I'd like to go.


I mean in terms of sales and future R&D - lots of people own older trucks and SUVs and still drive them (in a lot of cases because they can't get out from under them), but look at Ford and GM and how their releasing newer vehicles. They're pushing unibody crossovers and mid-size sedans, because things like the Excursion and Escalade EXT are a tough sell these days. Big cars and big trucks as mainstream is going away. Just like minivans went away 10-15 years ago. It's gradual though, because generally the vehicles last longer than the fad that produced them.

I'm thinking mostly like, go on a dealer lot today - you'll probably find a lot of sedans and hatchbacks and such, whereas five or six years ago, it'd be an ocean of trucks.


I forget what they use for de-icing down there these days (I can find out though - snarky guess: nothing at all); if it's actual salt, be more than a little leery (seriously it's as bad as Hawaii for the cars unless you wash the thing regularly during snow). If it's the less abrasive chemical goo that Denver sprays (it looks similar to the stuff they de-ice aircraft with; they mix it with sand sometimes (which is a proper mess (it's like driving in a Slurpee))) I wouldn't be as worried - rust is pretty uncommon on cars here (low humidity and lots of sun). Then again, that's a relatively old car, and the finish on the undercarriage probably has nothing on modern electroplating.
Edited by obobskivich - 11/21/12 at 10:53pm