Originally Posted by ssrock64
I have a broader definition of a supercar, but I do understand where you're coming from. In my opinion, production numbers and daily-driving capabilities don't really matter when it comes to the classification. I do agree that the GTR and LFA lack the emotion to be called supercars, but I'd call anything that stirs the soul, goes fast, and looks the part a supercar, regardless of how many exist or whether you can drive it on regular roads without displeasure.
I can go with that, to me it's "poster material", or what stirs the blood, then you add heaps of insane performance. It doesn't have to be "beautiful", but it must be unforgettable, striking. Hell, an Enzo isn't even attractive in a traditional sense, in fact at certain angles it's rather ugly (much like the personality of the man it's named for), but it always leaves a lasting impression and a sense of awe. It's like how Lady Gaga isn't pretty but still exudes metric tonnes of sex appeal. One car I want, I'm waiting for depreciation to take it down a little more, is the RR Phantom coupe. Like the Brooklands, it isn't a sports car but it IS a supercar, it's the modern automotive summit for those who are crazy for Dick Tracy and art deco.
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv
I guess I would ask the question in reverse, how is the 911 Turbo *not* an exotic sportscar? Go back to the introduction of the 911 Turbo in 1975. The engine was in the back, it was turbocharged when very few cars used turbos, it had the whale tail and bulging fenders before all the me-too! cars, and it was very, very quick.
I have said before that a car should be judged based on it's introduction, not against current cars. But in the above paragraph, I was talking about the 1975 911 Turbo/930.
Now consider the 991 Turbo - I might agree the "exotic" tag could get dropped, if you only consider looks and horsepower. However, the technology underneath the car is still pretty darn exotic - active rear steering, 7-speed manual gearbox and more computer power than the KITT.
All it's missing is the red strobe light...
Originally Posted by Hutnicks
Hey i told you I was prejudiced
I've just always viewed the turbo as exactly that, a 911 with turbochargers. It was evolutionary rather than revolutionary so I view it as sitting in the same stable as the other 911 variants. I really don't want to turn this into a Stuart hates VAP thread though. Someone might have IBS or something:D
There are major differences; body dimensions (the Turbo has a substantially wider track), the powertrain itself is hand-built (balanced and blueprinted), and the internals of the engine are all designed specifically with forced induction in mind (even down to the slightly concave pistons), the transmission and diff(s) are much more durable, larger brakes, more aggressive engine management, and all the added aero that actually works. All of those things, but when you switch it from Track to Road it's just as calm as a stock Carrera. Correct that, it's noticeably more supple and comfortable than an NA 911. Few cars change character so dramatically when you change modes, it's a different car, the 12C is another as is the R8, some you can't notice much at all until you flog them, like the 458 or Carrera GT's chrono (just subtly changes engine timing and throttle response).
The 997 Turbo is the peak of what Porsche could do in analog, and the 997>991 was another transition, much like the 993>996 before. They've cut out the critical piece of driver involvement with the 991 and that's a sad thing, and I'm not just talking about the overbearing ESC system and lack of a MT, though those are a large part of it. Like the 12C and GTR, it's more Xbox than car, and while it's faster it quickly becomes boring.
We've discussed swapping the 7-spd MT in my 991 Carrera S with a Getrag 6, but frankly that's just the tip of the iceberg and not worth the effort. It's better to just accept that it's really not a sports car anymore. My wife has claimed it anyway, and it's a safe car for her as is. Maybe the GT3 RS or GT2 will recapture some of what's been lost, I don't know.