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An audiophile and petrolhead's journal: Buckle up! - Page 317

post #4741 of 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post
 


Indycars have run on it for decades.

 

That said, there are lubrication issues involved in its use.

We do not have the capacity to generate enough of it to power the nation.

The largest factor is safety. You cannot see an ethanol fire.

It evaporates much faster than petrol. So the fire hazard at the pumps is severly increased

Service stations would have to be re engineered to make its use safe for the masses.

Ohh I see thanks ^^ 

post #4742 of 6625
Thread Starter 
I run E85 (85% ethanol) in every car I can convert, it's a great fuel. However, we also install fuel cut-off switches in all those cars too (and anything made before ~1980) as well as install new gas caps and thoroughly test the tanks. That way if they have to sit for longer than a couple days, we can close off the fuel line and prevent possible fume seepage and lessen evaporation. Most new cars are fairly flex-fuel ready, with a few modest changes, while others are 100% ready from the factory, like the Koenigsegg and 12C. The former makes even more horsepower while running it (980hp on pump gas > 1150hp on E85 > 1185hp on E100). The system just knows and adjusts timings and compression automatically. It's some kind of Swedish witchcraft. BTW, we have found that car's Kryptonite, so to speak (aside from eating tires), apparently the normal replacement interval for its clutch is 30k kms. I'm not going to say how much they are... but if a person were paying parts and labor, it would be about the same as a whole new Subaru BRZ. Fortunately, I just have to pay for the part, which is only a little more than a new Kia Soul.

No, I'm not bragging at all, just an interesting bit of maintenance trivia. Oh, and there's the differential @50k kms, heads @60k, complete engine rebuild @80k, etc. etc...

BTW, we may potentially become an official service center for Koenigsegg, not that it would generate much business (there are only 15 or so in the USA), but the only other one in North America is in Nevada. They're supposed to get back with my manager about the requirements.
Edited by Magick Man - 10/19/13 at 9:31am
post #4743 of 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

I run E85 (85% ethanol) in every car I can convert, it's a great fuel. However, we also install fuel cut-off switches in all those cars too (and anything made before ~1980) as well as install new gas caps and thoroughly test the tanks. That way if they have to sit for longer than a couple days, we can close off the fuel line and prevent possible fume seepage and lessen evaporation. Most new cars are fairly flex-fuel ready, with a few modest changes, while others are 100% ready from the factory, like the Koenigsegg and 12C. The former makes even more horsepower while running it (980hp on pump gas > 1150hp on E85 > 1185hp on E100). The system just knows and adjusts timings and compression automatically. It's some kind of Swedish witchcraft. BTW, we have found that car's Kryptonite, so to speak (aside from eating tires), apparently the normal replacement interval for its clutch is 30k kms. I'm not going to say how much they are... but if a person were paying parts and labor, it would be about the same as a whole new Subaru BRZ. Fortunately, I just have to pay for the part, which is only a little more than a new Kia Soul.

No, I'm not bragging at all, just an interesting bit of maintenance trivia. Oh, and there's the differential @50k kms, heads @60k, complete engine rebuild @80k, etc. etc...

BTW, we may potentially become an official service center for Koenigsegg, not that it would generate much business (there are only 15 or so in the USA), but the only other one in North America is in Nevada. They're supposed to get back with my manager about the requirements.


Zoiks. Those are damn near F1 car maintenance levels thesedays. With those intervals even 15 cars should keep you busy year round, and probably pay the staff wages to boot.

post #4744 of 6625
Thread Starter 
I drive mine a lot more than most, the vast majority of `seggs are garage queens and are driven very sparingly. Sad but true.
post #4745 of 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

I drive mine a lot more than most, the vast majority of `seggs are garage queens and are driven very sparingly. Sad but true.


That just cannot be good for a vehicle that high strung. I'd be afraid to not drive it.

post #4746 of 6625
Sounds like the K-segg is a gift that just keeps on giving...

30 Km = 18.6K miles - holy cr@p! That means if I was making my daily commute in that car, I would be changing the clutch about twice a year, and doing a complete engine rebuild every 18 months. The Swedish chefs would have to devote an entire parts manufacturing line just for my car...
post #4747 of 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

I run E85 (85% ethanol) in every car I can convert, it's a great fuel. However, we also install fuel cut-off switches in all those cars too (and anything made before ~1980) as well as install new gas caps and thoroughly test the tanks. That way if they have to sit for longer than a couple days, we can close off the fuel line and prevent possible fume seepage and lessen evaporation. Most new cars are fairly flex-fuel ready, with a few modest changes, while others are 100% ready from the factory, like the Koenigsegg and 12C. The former makes even more horsepower while running it (980hp on pump gas > 1150hp on E85 > 1185hp on E100). The system just knows and adjusts timings and compression automatically. It's some kind of Swedish witchcraft. BTW, we have found that car's Kryptonite, so to speak (aside from eating tires), apparently the normal replacement interval for its clutch is 30k kms. I'm not going to say how much they are... but if a person were paying parts and labor, it would be about the same as a whole new Subaru BRZ. Fortunately, I just have to pay for the part, which is only a little more than a new Kia Soul.
 

Is it because of the different fuel system? 

post #4748 of 6625
Thread Starter 
Could be worse, in a Veyron SS, after 10-12 "launched" starts you have to replace the gearbox, it simply will not let you do any more. Now K'segg (I like that) is telling me that those are estimations involving constant "spirited driving", if a person is more reasonable with the clutch and revs, likely they can get twice what I said before. Ah, well that's not so crappy. But yeah billy, they'd put you over a barrel, you'd be spending $100k+ /year in maintenance, not including the 5k mi oil changes. Nothing too exotic there, however, it's the same synthetic 10W60 oil used in the BMW M5 (5W50 in winter) and most other forced-induction V8s and V10s. Oh, this is funny, with the "infinitely variable" valve timing, you can run all the way down to 83 octane fuel in it (like what they sell in Denver), it'll simply keep dropping compression until it doesn't knock. blink.gif
Quote:
Is it because of the different fuel system?

It's because of the 810 ft/lbs of torque. That's a lot of twist to deal with.


Oh, and I'm taking tomorrow off completely, so I'll update with the whole PA car fiasco.
post #4749 of 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

Could be worse, in a Veyron SS, after 10-12 "launched" starts you have to replace the gearbox, it simply will not let you do any more. Now K'segg (I like that) is telling me that those are estimations involving constant "spirited driving", if a person is more reasonable with the clutch and revs, likely they can get twice what I said before. Ah, well that's not so crappy. But yeah billy, they'd put you over a barrel, you'd be spending $100k+ /year in maintenance, not including the 5k mi oil changes. Nothing too exotic there, however, it's the same synthetic 10W60 oil used in the BMW M5 (5W50 in winter) and most other forced-induction V8s and V10s. Oh, this is funny, with the "infinitely variable" valve timing, you can run all the way down to 83 octane fuel in it (like what they sell in Denver), it'll simply keep dropping compression until it doesn't knock. blink.gif
It's because of the 810 ft/lbs of torque. That's a lot of twist to deal with.


Oh, and I'm taking tomorrow off completely, so I'll update with the whole PA car fiasco.


What's the horsepower drop to on 85RON?

post #4750 of 6625
The Wikipedia article on ethanol fuel is actually pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel#Technology

I think one of the key points is that ethanol has a lower energy per gallon than gasoline. That means more fuel must be burned in the cylinder to get the same force exerted on the piston. This is offset by the ability to run higher compression ratios - which means there can be more oxygen in the same cylinder volume, giving a more efficient use of that fuel. In practice, this means more horsepower at the same engine displacement, but at a higher fuel consumption than gasoline.

A far as availability of ethanol, I think there are some really interesting possibilities, like this: http://www.algenolbiofuels.com/

Ethyl alcohol can be made from any sugar. There just isn't anything more plentiful and with as high an energy potential. Sure, sunlight & wind are also plentiful - but the energy potential is so low that they aren't very useful for doing work.

If the tree-huggers weren't so powerful, we might actually be working on technology that might actually work!!
post #4751 of 6625
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post


What's the horsepower drop to on 85RON?


My napkin math says ~550ish, because it doesn't scale in a linear fashion. The transition from E15, or "pure fossil" 98RON, to E85 (100-105RON) is where you see the most benefit, then there's a more modest gain with E100 (106-110RON), but most flex fuel systems have long-term issues running pure ethanol, due to corrosion. So we just use E85 to avoid headaches down the road (NPI). As billy pointed out, efficiency isn't as good as it is with super-premium unleaded, the offset in the K'segg is ~5-7%, but it does burn cleaner and costs less.
post #4752 of 6625
We just need ceramic/composite engines. Corrosion problem solved... smily_headphones1.gif
post #4753 of 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

We just need ceramic/composite engines. Corrosion problem solved... smily_headphones1.gif


http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/scrapbook/004/004.htm

post #4754 of 6625
Which reminds me of a magazine article I read back in the mid-80s about Toyota developing a ceramic, adiabatic, diesel engine. The goal was to have NO cooling system - all the heat would be kept inside the engine and used to do mechanical work. When most car people talk about adiabatic engines, they bring-up Smokey Yunnick's Fiero, but this Toyota truck diesel was a completely different animal. Unfortunately, ceramics & carbon-carbon just aren't ready for prime-time, high-volume mass-production. Someday though...

BTW, I just love the old Can-Am cars like the Lola T70, McLaren M8B & Ford G7A. How can you not love this?

Bruce McLaren in a 1969 M8B - he was killed in a crash during testing for the 1970 season... frown.gif


Edited by billybob_jcv - 10/20/13 at 8:47pm
post #4755 of 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Which reminds me of a magazine article I read back in the mid-80s about Toyota developing a ceramic, adiabatic, diesel engine. The goal was to have NO cooling system - all the heat would be kept inside the engine and used to do mechanical work. When most car people talk about adiabatic engines, they bring-up Smokey Yunnick's Fiero, but this Toyota truck diesel was a completely different animal. Unfortunately, ceramics & carbon-carbon just aren't ready for prime-time, high-volume mass-production. Someday though...


http://ceramicrotaryengines.com/

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