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post #4486 of 7474
I'm actually on the fence concerning the 365 GTB/4 & GTS/4 being a supercar. I love them. I have always loved them. I would love to have one. But is it a "supercar"? I don't know. I sort of put it in the same class as many other beautiful cars. For example, the Jag V12 XK-E or an Aston Martin. If it were 1971 would I have a poster of a Daytona or XK-E on my wall? Maybe - probably - but I'm not sure. I suspect the Miura would have definitely been on the wall (along with the Led Zeppelin posters), and the Daytona would probably have been the there too. The XK-E, probably not.
post #4487 of 7474
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

I'm actually on the fence concerning the 365 GTB/4 & GTS/4 being a supercar. I love them. I have always loved them. I would love to have one. But is it a "supercar"? I don't know. I sort of put it in the same class as many other beautiful cars. For example, the Jag V12 XK-E or an Aston Martin. If it were 1971 would I have a poster of a Daytona or XK-E on my wall? Maybe - probably - but I'm not sure. I suspect the Miura would have definitely been on the wall (along with the Led Zeppelin posters), and the Daytona would probably have been the there too. The XK-E, probably not.

Odd, when Enzo himself referred to the E type as the most beautiful car in the world. The 6 was a better car, by miles.

 

Need to define supercar. My definitition would include but not be limited to Exceeds all performance of it peers by an order of magnitude".

The Countach I exclude easily on the handling issue. The Miura for similar reasons. Both were exemplary exotic, but that in itself does not really a supercar make in my eyes.

The GT40 certainly qualifies on all counts and you could order one at your local Ford dealership so I tend to bend on that one. However, you would have to include the MacLaren MP6 for similar reasons, even if the dealer you had to order it from would have been Bruce himself.

The Daytona, once again exotic yes, super, no.

post #4488 of 7474
An order of magnitude? Not possible!
post #4489 of 7474

10 orders of magnitude factorial.

post #4490 of 7474
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

10 orders of magnitude factorial.

(1^10)! = 1
(2^10)! = 5.4185287960588572830769219446839e+2639
post #4491 of 7474
Tomorrow I'm on my way to the source of all smug in the world - San Francisco. Where even taxi drivers now use primarily Prius cabs.

post #4492 of 7474
post #4493 of 7474
Thread Starter 
I have to say the Daytona is a supercar, not so much because of raw performance, even though it was fast for its day, but because of the design and exclusivity. If a car ticks at least 2 of those 3 boxes (stunning design, performance, exclusivity) I call it a supercar. I believe that the phenomenon started with Bugatti, Duesenberg, Talbot-Lago etc., they were the world's first. Pedestrian by today's standards, but 140MPH when everyone else was doing 70-80, tops, is monumental.



At least the monocoque is intact, the passengers may have survived. Pro tip, don't do 120 down a busy one-way street in New York (or anywhere else).

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Tomorrow I'm on my way to the source of all smug in the world - San Francisco. Where even taxi drivers now use primarily Prius cabs.



Having been there recently, I can say that I wasn't impressed. The little commies running around waving their anti-car signs outside Pebble Beach during the Concours. My wife, ever the diplomat, made sure to give them all encouragement with a one finger salute as we drove by, in our rented, 12MPG, Escalade EXT. rolleyes.gif
post #4494 of 7474
I never rent a car when I have to travel to downtown San Francisco for business. There's simply no point - I'm not going to be sight-seeing, traffic is horrendous and parking costs a fortune. I take taxis wherever I need to go. Each cab ride is like the chase scene from Bullitt, but I just shut my mouth and hang-on.
post #4495 of 7474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

I have to say the Daytona is a supercar, not so much because of raw performance, even though it was fast for its day, but because of the design and exclusivity. If a car ticks at least 2 of those 3 boxes (stunning design, performance, exclusivity) I call it a supercar. I believe that the phenomenon started with Bugatti, Duesenberg, Talbot-Lago etc., they were the world's first. Pedestrian by today's standards, but 140MPH when everyone else was doing 70-80, tops, is monumental.
At least the monocoque is intact, the passengers may have survived. Pro tip, don't do 120 down a busy one-way street in New York (or anywhere else).
Having been there recently, I can say that I wasn't impressed. The little commies running around waving their anti-car signs outside Pebble Beach during the Concours. My wife, ever the diplomat, made sure to give them all encouragement with a one finger salute as we drove by, in our rented, 12MPG, Escalade EXT. rolleyes.gif

Precisely .

 

I just cannot factor style and exclusivity into the equation. I think it is because it is expected, I take it as a given. (until someone builds a 200 mph 0 -100-0 in 8 sec, 1.5 g on the skidpad econobox for 20 grand:veryevil:)

post #4496 of 7474
Without the appearance and exclusivity, I fear you are painting yourself into a corner. Technical barriers do exist - like the current one at ~200 MPH. We are already seeing more and more cars capable of 180+ MPH, but the production cars that can do over 200 MPH is still very, very small. The ability to reach a next step in performance that is significant enough to meet your criteria might need to wait for a disruptive technology to appear - something completely outside the current state of the art of 4 tires and 1000+ HP.

I'm betting the electric motor at each wheel will be the future of supercars. Mercedes has it right. Electrical motors exist today that can easily outperform the internal combustion engine on a HP/lb scale. HOWEVER - the electrical storage issue is the tough nut. Batteries are NOT the answer. I have no idea what the answer is (other than Mr. Fusion) - if I did, I would be ruler of the free world!
post #4497 of 7474
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Without the appearance and exclusivity, I fear you are painting yourself into a corner. Technical barriers do exist - like the current one at ~200 MPH. We are already seeing more and more cars capable of 180+ MPH, but the production cars that can do over 200 MPH is still very, very small. The ability to reach a next step in performance that is significant enough to meet your criteria might need to wait for a disruptive technology to appear - something completely outside the current state of the art of 4 tires and 1000+ HP.

I'm betting the electric motor at each wheel will be the future of supercars. Mercedes has it right. Electrical motors exist today that can easily outperform the internal combustion engine on a HP/lb scale. HOWEVER - the electrical storage issue is the tough nut. Batteries are NOT the answer. I have no idea what the answer is (other than Mr. Fusion) - if I did, I would be ruler of the free world!

Exactly re  new tech, hence the term "Supercar" rather than "slightly better then the other guys limited production high performance "  I dislike when words loose their meanings and importance due to nothing more than volume of players. If its not a cut above it loses the right to the title and just becomes "superior to the mainstream"

 

Electric on each wheel is no new thing. Still the issue of unsprung weight is an enormous obstacle to that technology. A drivetrain will almost always be more efficient. The form of electric we need does not exist in current (no pun) technology circles. Too much focus on battery right now and not enough on the engine itself.

 

Read again I said exclusivity and appearance should be treated as a given. While eye of the beholder comes into play, very few makers mass produce ugly supercars .

post #4498 of 7474
Thread Starter 
Direct port hydrogen ICEs are the future, we simply haven't found a way to extract H inexpensively, yet.
post #4499 of 7474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

Direct port hydrogen ICEs are the future, we simply haven't found a way to extract H inexpensively, yet.

 

I'm not sure it will be ICE but hydrogen is  close to the perfect combustable fuel. Doing it safely and selling the public on it is another story all together.

post #4500 of 7474

The Prius taxis are probably more for economic reasons sine the Prii are really fuel-efficient and cab operators aren't exactly interested in 0-100 times.

 

Not to mention easier to handle than a CrownVic and less cumbersome too.

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