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An audiophile and petrolhead's journal: Buckle up! - Page 227

post #3391 of 9498
Thread Starter 
I enjoy speed shifting too, but my mechanic hates it. He says that even seemingly benign mistakes damage the gears almost 100% of the time, so I listen to him rather than risk a $20-$30k tranny. Direct quote, "Clutches are cheap, just work on breaking those."

Cars with turbos are almost always going to have more "thrilling" acceleration, the F40 is a great example. Some of the worst turbo lag a person could imagine, you can put it in 5th at 2k RPMs and it'll sit there all day, no matter how much throttle you give it, and at times if you don't keep the revs up you pull out of a sharp corner like a diesel Golf. It's simply different tastes. However, at the end of the day, at stock levels, the MP4-12C and the F1 are almost identical in how fast you get from 0-100mph, with clean starts and the way they're set up now. Explosion off the line (F1) or your head whipping back at 50. There's a video of the F1 vs a Veyron, where the F1 eats the big Bugatti's lunch for 1/2 of a mile, then the newer car shoots right by. Here it is:

True, Hammond didn't use the Veyron's launch control, to try and wash out any advantages, and the Stig was driving the F1 (probably due to insurance, I wouldn't let the Hamster drive mine). I'd mentioned before that nothing I've driven accelerates like the older McLaren and that's 100% true. From 0 to well north of 200mph you're accelerating at the same rate, which is a very strange feeling. It's almost like it defies the laws of physics.
post #3392 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


They have, so few are left it's like an endangered species. That's why I decided awhile back that, with few exceptions, I'm won't buy a car unless it has a real manual transmission. It's one of the requirements for the car collection. That said, my wife and I were talking about the need for a people carrier, something that isn't an SUV but can easily seat 5 adults. So we bought a `12 Cayenne Turbo. Hold on, hold on, it's actually a really nice car. The ride is amazing, it handles like a sports car, is very comfortable, gets 22MPG, and goes like stink.

I see a lot of them, at the local shopping center and I never understood why people chose the porsche counterpart over the Touareg. Until I saw the price. The Porsche was around the same price with more equiptment and a badge blink.gif

post #3393 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by veyrongatti View Post

I see a lot of them, at the local shopping center and I never understood why people chose the porsche counterpart over the Touareg. Until I saw the price. The Porsche was around the same price with more equiptment and a badge blink.gif

That depends on which engine you get in the Cayenne. The 4.8L V8 twin turbo is 2X the price of the base model. Also, if you add some of the Sport & Premium packages to the Cayenne, the price climbs very quickly.

A couple of months ago my wife came home and said: "I saw a Porsche SUV for $15K!" Naturally, I said "Really, where?" Of course, there was more to the story... This was a 2004 Cayenne with 180K miles on it being sold at a low-end used car lot known for selling high mileage, repos, salvage titles and other detritus of the road. Ummm... Yeah... TBNT...
post #3394 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

Cars with turbos are almost always going to have more "thrilling" acceleration, the F40 is a great example. Some of the worst turbo lag a person could imagine, you can put it in 5th at 2k RPMs and it'll sit there all day, no matter how much throttle you give it, and at times if you don't keep the revs up you pull out of a sharp corner like a diesel Golf. It's simply different tastes. However, at the end of the day, at stock levels, the MP4-12C and the F1 are almost identical in how fast you get from 0-100mph, with clean starts and the way they're set up now. Explosion off the line (F1) or your head whipping back at 50. There's a video of the F1 vs a Veyron, where the F1 eats the big Bugatti's lunch for 1/2 of a mile, then the newer car shoots right by. Here it is:

True, Hammond didn't use the Veyron's launch control, to try and wash out any advantages, and the Stig was driving the F1 (probably due to insurance, I wouldn't let the Hamster drive mine). I'd mentioned before that nothing I've driven accelerates like the older McLaren and that's 100% true. From 0 to well north of 200mph you're accelerating at the same rate, which is a very strange feeling. It's almost like it defies the laws of physics.

 

I can safely say that in that video, the Veyron did suffer a loss of power due to the heat of Abu Dhabi's climate. Turbo cars are so inefficient in very, very hot climates, they can lose up to 80HP.

But then, I hate the Veyron now. I see it more as a "nouveau riche" poser toy.

The F1 on the other hand, that is only for the connoisseur.

post #3395 of 9498
Thread Starter 
Oooooh, my minion found this, an 87 TVR S, restored and just 200 miles away (it had been on fleabay but DNS)? And it has a Sierra Cosworth drivetrain nipping almost 220bhp? I think I'm going to have a trouser accident. 18k bones? Seriously? blink.gif






Fly minion, fly! Devilish Grin emoticon - devilish-grin-smiley-emoticon.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by VortexBlast View Post

I can safely say that in that video, the Veyron did suffer a loss of power due to the heat of Abu Dhabi's climate. Turbo cars are so inefficient in very, very hot climates, they can lose up to 80HP.
But then, I hate the Veyron now. I see it more as a "nouveau riche" poser toy. The F1 on the other hand, that is only for the connoisseur.

Well, the connoisseur who is very careful. redface.gif After 2015 McLaren will no longer provide OEM parts for them. My guys are right now grabbing whatever they can find; original panels, lights, engine parts, you name it. It's sad, but I understand, 23 years is a long time to provide bumper-to-bumper support from the factory. They don't make much at all providing that service, if anything, and it's not like they're a large company.

While I'm sure heat played a factor, as well as not using the launch control, hats off to the Stig for that start. If I tried to launch that cleanly a dozen times, I'd likely be successful only once or twice. The clutch really grabs and you can't simply take off elegantly from a standstill. You're either going to bog, roast the tires, or bake some clutch. There's a window where you build revs, get off the throttle, dump the clutch, then get back get back on the gas after it's completely in gear (probably ~.05 of a second). All without giving it too much and leaving your rubber on the tarmac. He had a perfect launch.

I used to be really hard on the Veyron, being such a fat, lumbering thing, but after taking one for a run (just the 16.4 coupe) I realized how well engineered it is. However, it's not a true sports car, by any stretch, it's a high-speed grand tourer. I'm impressed that they could get it to handle well at all, it's a lot like a buffalo that's almost successfully been taught how to tango. Remarkable, really.
post #3396 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


Fly minion, fly! Devilish Grin emoticon - devilish-grin-smiley-emoticon.gif
Well, the connoisseur who is very careful. redface.gif After 2015 McLaren will no longer provide OEM parts for them. My guys are right now grabbing whatever they can find; original panels, lights, engine parts, you name it. It's sad, but I understand, 23 years is a long time to provide bumper-to-bumper support from the factory. They don't make much at all providing that service, if anything, and it's not like they're a large company.

While I'm sure heat played a factor, as well as not using the launch control, hats off to the Stig for that start. If I tried to launch that cleanly a dozen times, I'd likely be successful only once or twice. The clutch really grabs and you can't simply take off elegantly from a standstill. You're either going to bog, roast the tires, or bake some clutch. There's a window where you build revs, get off the throttle, dump the clutch, then get back get back on the gas after it's completely in gear (probably ~.05 of a second). All without giving it too much and leaving your rubber on the tarmac. He had a perfect launch.

I used to be really hard on the Veyron, being such a fat, lumbering thing, but after taking one for a run (just the 16.4 coupe) I realized how well engineered it is. However, it's not a true sports car, by any stretch, it's a high-speed grand tourer. I'm impressed that they could get it to handle well at all, it's a lot like a buffalo that's almost successfully been taught how to tango. Remarkable, really.

Wait so I would never see the F1 in real life? Fat, lumbering thing seems to describe me well enough biggrin.gif

post #3397 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post


That depends on which engine you get in the Cayenne. The 4.8L V8 twin turbo is 2X the price of the base model. Also, if you add some of the Sport & Premium packages to the Cayenne, the price climbs very quickly.
 

Ohh Im talking about the base model with the 3 litre. The Toureg 3 litre and the Cayenne 3 litre is about the same price (you could also factor in the Q7 but the new model isn't out yet.). But the Porsche is uglier. wink.gif

 

PS:Im talking about Australia, where VW sells like hot cakes and there are not a lot of discounts for VW's. 


Edited by veyrongatti - 6/12/13 at 2:59pm
post #3398 of 9498
I like TVRs - I wish they had continued to sell them in the USA. I wonder when (if) TVR will be back in production in the UK?
post #3399 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

I like TVRs - I wish they had continued to sell them in the USA. I wonder when (if) TVR will be back in production in the UK?

 

Soon enough. With its new British owner (thank god no more Russians) he said that he's very confident to bring back TVR and to march it forwards to the future.

 

The world needs cars like TVR. Bat**** insane, effingly quick and fast, incredibly impractical, mad styling, hidden door hinges and wants to kill you at every corner. Also, who gives a **** about ABS, Traction Control and Stability Control? Do it the TVR way! Do it with your feet!

post #3400 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by VortexBlast View Post

 

Soon enough. With its new British owner (thank god no more Russians) he said that he's very confident to bring back TVR and to march it forwards to the future.

 

The world needs cars like TVR. Bat**** insane, effingly quick and fast, incredibly impractical, mad styling, hidden door hinges and wants to kill you at every corner. Also, who gives a **** about ABS, Traction Control and Stability Control? Do it the TVR way! Do it with your feet!

 

I can attest to that one. Rivaling the Sunbeam Tiger for deadly transients from straight line travel

post #3401 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

I used to be really hard on the Veyron, being such a fat, lumbering thing, but after taking one for a run (just the 16.4 coupe) I realized how well engineered it is. However, it's not a true sports car, by any stretch, it's a high-speed grand tourer. I'm impressed that they could get it to handle well at all, it's a lot like a buffalo that's almost successfully been taught how to tango. Remarkable, really.

 

I agree with that, the Veyron is an engineering marvel, the last of its kind but I feel that in a sense it's no longer a true Bugatti for me. When it was launched back in 2004, yeah sure I really liked the Veyron a lot, it was my favourite car but as I grew older I find it less and less attractive because of one thing: the statement of money.

 

A lot of average non-car guys know that the Veyron is the most expensive car in the world and because of that, I bet that a lot of Veyron owners (probably the younger ones) use it as a tool to show off their wealth. We can also see by how many special edition Veyrons has been made but there are no signs of intention from Bugatti to bring another car like the Galibier. Now I see Bugatti being more and more as a lifestyle brand now and not a proper sports car manufacturer.

 

Ettore Bugatti used to build his car from passion and also to prove that he can make anything (take the Royale for example). His cars were beautiful and also very, very innovative at that time. With today's Bugatti, they managed to take a too big of a giant leap in automotive engineering that lead to a form of trap.

post #3402 of 9498
Very well said VB! For me, my favorites are the art deco Bugatti's from the 20s & 30s - they are simply stunning displays of BOTH engineering and design.

This is a production car that has a supercharged, DOHC, inline-8 producing 170 BHP and capable of 135 MPH in 1936!!



Or this one, that produced 300 BHP from a 5L inline-8 with dual carbs and a supercharger in 1931!!



post #3403 of 9498
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Very well said VB! For me, my favorites are the art deco Bugatti's from the 20s & 30s - they are simply stunning displays of BOTH engineering and design.

Or this one, that produced 300 BHP from a 5L inline-8 with dual carbs and a supercharger in 1931!!


That Type 54 makes me weak, such beautiful lines. Pur Sang will make an exact replica for you, for 250k. That's an amazing deal actually, since they even cast the engines themselves and build it all 100% by hand from original types of materials.

Seen this page?

http://www.bugattipage.com/bsale.htm

Pick one. wink.gif
post #3404 of 9498
Today's drive home was one of those really frustrating commutes. I ran into traffic shortly after getting on the freeway, so I crawled to the next exit, got off and headed up to an alternate route that winds it's way through the hills and will eventually meet back-up with the freeway about 15 miles farther down. The alternate route is a narrow, winding two lane road that can be either 1) a lot of fun; or 2) horrific - depending on who is in front of you. As soon as I got on the two lane road, I found myself behind an SUV (uh-oh) and then I noticed it was an SUV driven by an elderly couple with a Disabled Person license plates (triple UH-OH!) So, the next 15 miles of winding road was a max of 30 MPH and a lot of it less than 20 MPH - with absolutely no opportunity to pass. I debated whether I should go back to the freeway, but decided to stick with the devil I knew. When I finally got back to the freeway, it was moving at full speed, telling me I probably should have taken an earlier connector from the 2-lane road. And, of course, as soon as I got back on the freeway (literally less than a mile!) - I hit more traffic and crawled another 10+ miles through some freeway construction. Then the freeway finally opened up to 3 lanes each direction. This usually that gives me enough room to weave my way through the hordes of Priuses and SUVs to find some running room. But not today. Today, the three lanes were stuffed with the aforementioned Priuses and SUVs - AND those incredibly annoying local delivery panel trucks that are always in the middle or fast lanes because they are going 3 MPH faster than big semis and the landscaping pickups with the rakes and shovels tied to the sides of the stakebed. My GAWD - GTFOoMW!! So, my 60 mile commute that I can often do in 50 minutes (or less) was 90 minutes.

OK - I admit it - I drive too fast. Way too fast. I do not like going "the flow of traffic" - I like being in the front and pulling away. Being next to the same car for mile after mile makes me crazy. If you have been on the same road with me, you have probably flipped me off.

On the upside, I did see two interesting cars on the freeway today. One was a red Ferrari 360 and the other was a car that I don't think I have ever seen on the road before: a red Porsche 968 Cabriolet - which I have always thought was the Platypus of the Porsche family - combine all the parts of the Porsche models you don't like into one car - and you get a 968.
post #3405 of 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

That Type 54 makes me weak, such beautiful lines. Pur Sang will make an exact replica for you, for 250k. That's an amazing deal actually, since they even cast the engines themselves and build it all 100% by hand from original types of materials.

Seen this page?

http://www.bugattipage.com/bsale.htm

Pick one. wink.gif

Very hard to choose! I think either this one ($1.8M for a daily driver sounds about right!):



Or maybe one of the Type 35 - they look fun and I love the boattail:

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