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An audiophile and petrolhead's journal: Buckle up! - Page 98

post #1456 of 7166

Okay, why is orange not in the running here?  confused.gif  tongue.gif
 

post #1457 of 7166
Thread Starter 
I do like the orange/coppery color, it's up for consideration too, really pops. I'm probably going to let Rich decide, since he's the one who does this for a living and there aren't many colors that I simply despise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Ever seen a paintjob with phosphorescence in the clear? Would look really cool at night and let it appear "normal" during the day. smily_headphones1.gif


The Ferrari "Giallo Modena" has a very light/subtle phosphorescence to it, which I've seldom heard people comment about. The same goes for the yellow that Ruf uses for their cars.





In a way I'm glad 2012 is over, I can get out of buying mode now. It's very stressful. confused_face.gif However, after figuring it all up, I didn't spend as much as I'd thought. I actually missed my mark by ~$120k (for deductions). This new year is going to stink, but at least there's no real advantage to holding securities long-term anymore. It's almost like the government is rewarding investors for going short. We really do have a gang of idiots in DC, there's no other way to describe them. I even wrote my senators, Corker replied (Alexander didn't because he's a worthless git) and told me I had some great ideas, and then he promptly ignored them. You know, ~40% of the morons in both houses of congress have filed bankruptcy at some point in their lives, that figure always makes me feel so comfortable about the economic future of this country. confused_face_2.gif If I were an intelligent man, I'd convert my assets to gold, load up everything I have on to a cargo ship, grab the family, and immigrate to Australia (or New Zealand).
post #1458 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

If I were an intelligent man, I'd convert my assets to gold, load up everything I have on to a cargo ship, grab the family, and immigrate to Australia (or New Zealand).

 

100% agreed on the "gang of idiots". beerchug.gif

post #1459 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

The Ferrari "Giallo Modena" has a very light/subtle phosphorescence to it, which I've seldom heard people comment about. The same goes for the yellow that Ruf uses for their cars.

I've seen it heavily done on bikes and hotrods (including those of the undead variety wink.gif), and it makes the car glow at night - so for example you get a dark navy color during the day, and a baby blue during the night. Really trick looking. I like it more than pearlescent to be honest, because it's got more impact behind it and you just don't see it that often. To give an example in film, Minas Morgul was painted with phosporescent for the movies, of course with contrast colors, but that kind of even glow is roughly what to expect. I don't have any good pictures as examples though.

In theory (based on a few bike guys I know), you could have designs sprayed into the clear, so it draws a pattern or something when the sun sets, but that's probably pretty trick to do 100% the first time (since you're painting into the clear, not the actual paint).
post #1460 of 7166
Thread Starter 
While that would be cool, cars like these are usually only driven in the day, rarely at night. One reason being, they look better in daylight, the other because they have less visibility and illumination, making them more hazardous in the dark.


Yesterday we put about 200mi on the 12C, because I was finally feeling better and needed to get out for a little while. The car is something else. On the softest settings, it rides like a Bentley, handles like a Merc S-class, and sips fuel like an Accord. If you turn off the sport exhaust and keep the revs below 6000, it makes as much noise as the Bentley too. It's staggering, really. Comfort, luxury features, fuel economy ~24MPG), and amazing controls (the throttle is perfectly progressive). It's smallish, so you maneuver in traffic well, and in auto mode the transmission shifts so fluidly you can't even feel it. Yep, if you weren't looking right at the orange McLaren "swoosh" on the wheel, you'd think you were driving a Merc S600. All the system toys work, even the voice stuff, and they don't just work, they anticipate that you want them and work the first time, which is something that even Mercedes can't seem to get right. Stereo? Very fine as well, easily one of the better factory systems I've heard. Any faults as a daily driver? Sure, if you bury your foot in the go-fast pedal you'll be doing 100mph faster than you can say "is there a problem, officer?" but as long as you aren't a complete idiot, it isn't an issue. It's a turbo (twin-turbo) but doesn't feel like it, there's no appreciable lag that I can sense. Mine has the steel brake rotors instead of CF, but they stop the car so effectively I can't see how the (much) more expensive option could be better. I suppose if I lived at the track and worked it out all the time, they'd be a good investment from a durability standpoint, but otherwise there's no need. So... faults? Not really. redface.gif

I want to interject some points about fit and finish, because in this car it's amazing. Everything looks and feels uncompromised. There's no gaudy, over-the-top bling. Sure, the materials are top notch, lots of carbon fiber, but it all has purpose and its form follows its function. Even down to something like the stitching in the leather and Alcantara (a synthetic suede), it's better than millimeter perfect. In non-car terms, it's exactly like a premier Swiss watch, nothing on this car feels "wrong" or ill-conceived. It's hard to tell from pictures, but I can try. In a way, it makes the 458 almost... shabby. Then there's the space, there's a good deal of it, both in the cabin and in storage. Leaps and bounds better than any other car of its type.







Back to driving. So, it putters around town as well as any luxury sedan or econobox, but what happens when you turn it up a notch? Well, it's a lot easier making a fast car go fast, and this one's fast... and howdy. Switching up to Sport stiffens the suspension, but not so much that it becomes too hard, also throttle response improves by ~ a factor of 4. Then there's exhaust note, a beautiful throaty baritone, and auto shifting can be turned off, meaning it is all controlled via the paddles. I'm sure there's a lot of other things that change too, everything becomes much more urgent and alive, almost like it connects telepathically. It's damned uncanny. The stability control system is unreal, shifting and balancing continuously via the hydraulic suspension, the same that gives such a supple ride in normal mode. It's like a gyroscope, acting and reacting faster than you can sense, oftentimes covering up for some... uhh... questionable entries into curves. rolleyes.gif It effectively eliminates understeer, which is a shocking feat in an RMR design. Frankly, after the first couple minutes you don't even notice the effect anymore, it's just an extension of you. I wish I could say the same about the traction control, however it's much too obtrusive when you're out having fun. You can easily feel it "playing God" and it gets annoying (almost feels like AWD). The great news is, though, you can turn that sucker off, and if you aren't just going A>B (I can see its value in bad weather or city driving) that's a must.

Track mode is the car dialed up to 11, the connection to it transforms into something symbiotic in nature. Shifts are instant, power is instant, the sound becomes a baritone and tenor duet, with the wastegates adding a percussion. The whole car takes on the tension of piano wire, which coincidentally is too stiff for daily driving, but it IS track mode, so that's where you should probably be when you turn it on. wink.gif However, setting it to the middle for the chassis and the max for everything else (with TC off) dials in a perfect combo when you're "up to no good". You can even lower the glass partition behind your head to let in even more of the sound, filling the cabin with the Wagnerian soundtrack. Oooooo.... Thunderbolts and lightning! 620BHP, 8500RPM redlines, and Jekyll & Hyde personalities that are mix-and-matchable by variable degrees? It drives so well and is so unbelievably quick, you really can't ask for more. It's the perfect sports car.

Or is it? Here's the cold, wet blanket. Do you want your supercar to be this accurate, and dare I say it, clinical? I really get what reviewers have been saying about the MP4-12C, though as usual they go a little overboard. Do we love such cars because of their flaws, not in spite of them? Should such a beast, and it truly is one, be so manageable? Is it too refined? I'm wrestling with that and I'm not sure if I have an answer yet. One thing is certain, however, it's an engineering marvel, and can stir your pulse as well as any car from Maranello.
post #1461 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by J W View Post

Just learn to hide your new stuff better.

Yes I agree.

post #1462 of 7166
Hmm - After reading your last paragraph, my first thought was that perhaps the car isn't "super" enough because without a few flaws or compromises, you might believe the designers left something on the table. If a car is truly at the edge of the current state of the art, then perhaps we believe it *should* have some imperfections. Mere humans can't even *drive* a Formula 1 car - it takes a driver that has skills that are also at the edge of the state of the art.

However, I think this takes us back to the idea that at the supercar level, there really is no definition of "best" or "perfect". There are various metrics - highest absolute top speed, fastest acceleration, highest skidpad, lowest laptime on a particular roadcourse, most expensive, lowest production numbers, etc - and then there are the more subjective metrics - most exotic, most technologically advanced, most desirable, etc, etc, etc!

I don't think we should fault McLaren for picking design goals for the MP4-12C that might include traits like most driveable, most refined, most flexible, or a "supercar for everyday driving and human drivers." In fact, from all that you have written from the start of your interaction with McLaren, I get the sense that building a car that maximizes performance while minimizing faults is a big part of their schtick. I see evidence of that in the amount of personal customization you can make in the car you order as well as the thought the engineers put into the details in the cabin and the ability to control the engine, ride, etc.

Enjoy the 12C, and when you need to drive a supercar full of faults & compromises to achieve performance, drive the Saleen! wink.gif
post #1463 of 7166
Thread Starter 
Had a good time today, it was highlighted by some time at a private track relatively close by. We took two of the cars, the NSX and the 12C, and I was amazed at the similarities between them, which were more numerous than the differences. Technically, the NSX has more horsepower at peak boost, but a more steep powerband, and it's the same with torque. They also weigh-in close, but the Acura is ~200lbs lighter. You'd think the bigger Mac would be in trouble, but you'd be wrong, because it's about being able to put the power to the ground, and you can't drive the NSX hard with the TC off. You just end up turning your $1600 meats into smoke. Still, it's amazing how much value for money the NSX represents, because as it sits, it's ~90% of the 12C in terms of performance, and that bares out with lap times (2:44 vs. 2:56). Sure, its chassis isn't in the same league as the Brit, which has $10B in development behind it, but it's not bad in any way. Both times are under the magic 3 min mark, which is the standard set by a 996 turbo. Incidentally, the 12C broke the record for unmodified production cars, which had been set last year by a 458 coupe. I also want to take back what I earlier said about it being too tame, because at the limits of the car's ability (which exceeds my ability) it's a raving lunatic and deserves a straight jacket. The issue then is, how well it handles being a "normal" car, and if the only real downside is a lack of negatives, then it's best for me to just shut my gob. wink.gif

My advice is to go out and buy a nice used NSX and have a turbo added for $10k. You won't find anything remotely as good for twice the price. Period.





But, I dearly love the Mac, and if I could only have one car, it would be the one.
post #1464 of 7166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuggetsPie View Post

Yes I agree.

That's just a good way to end up on the couch. Forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Hmm - After reading your last paragraph, my first thought was that perhaps the car isn't "super" enough because without a few flaws or compromises, you might believe the designers left something on the table. If a car is truly at the edge of the current state of the art, then perhaps we believe it *should* have some imperfections. Mere humans can't even *drive* a Formula 1 car - it takes a driver that has skills that are also at the edge of the state of the art.
However, I think this takes us back to the idea that at the supercar level, there really is no definition of "best" or "perfect". There are various metrics - highest absolute top speed, fastest acceleration, highest skidpad, lowest laptime on a particular roadcourse, most expensive, lowest production numbers, etc - and then there are the more subjective metrics - most exotic, most technologically advanced, most desirable, etc, etc, etc!
I don't think we should fault McLaren for picking design goals for the MP4-12C that might include traits like most driveable, most refined, most flexible, or a "supercar for everyday driving and human drivers." In fact, from all that you have written from the start of your interaction with McLaren, I get the sense that building a car that maximizes performance while minimizing faults is a big part of their schtick. I see evidence of that in the amount of personal customization you can make in the car you order as well as the thought the engineers put into the details in the cabin and the ability to control the engine, ride, etc.
Enjoy the 12C, and when you need to drive a supercar full of faults & compromises to achieve performance, drive the Saleen! wink.gif

I don't believe they left anything out, people are just moaning that it's too civilized. But now I'm of the opinion that they're just looking for nits to pick. Setup properly, it's a madman. The S7 is an investment, mostly. Though we have some ideas in mind, and are going to upgrade it to the full Competition package.
post #1465 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


My advice is to go out and buy a nice used NSX and have a turbo added for $10k. You won't find anything remotely as good for twice the price. Period.

But, I dearly love the Mac, and if I could only have one car, it would be the one.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post


I don't think we should fault McLaren for picking design goals for the MP4-12C that might include traits like most driveable, most refined, most flexible, or a "supercar for everyday driving and human drivers." In fact, from all that you have written from the start of your interaction with McLaren, I get the sense that building a car that maximizes performance while minimizing faults is a big part of their schtick. I see evidence of that in the amount of personal customization you can make in the car you order as well as the thought the engineers put into the details in the cabin and the ability to control the engine, ride, etc.
 

I was just about to say that the Mac is like the spiritual successor to the NSX before Magick said it, I completely agree to what magick says (except I wouldnt add a turbo to the NSX nor would I ever afford one in Australia.......) 

post #1466 of 7166

http://www.gettingdownunder.com/investors-and-entrepreneurs-skilled-visa/ Hey Magick didnt you say you want to come to Australia? Didn't you say your politics were bad well, Australia isn't any better instead of accepting thousands of refugees who actually need help we (well when I say we what I ment was the idiots who decided this was a good idea) accept the select people who have 6 million dollars........ but this does give you the opportunity to come to a nice a sunny place in the middle of nowhere beerchug.gif not a bad place to live either, we are very relaxed (besides for the bogans who tend to drink VB, do donuts in the middle of the street, and be very very racist) and if you live in the right suburbs it is very safe. tongue.gif

 

I think I went off topic but I couldn't find the post in which you said you wanted to come to Australia, its not that different except we have Kangaroos and Koalas..........


Edited by veyrongatti - 1/5/13 at 10:09pm
post #1467 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by veyrongatti View Post

I think I went off topic but I couldn't find the post in which you said you wanted to come to Australia, its not that different except we have Kangaroos and Koalas..........

 

And that roughly 30% of the population have a pet kangaroo.

post #1468 of 7166
Thread Starter 
Sorry, but the NSX is too underpowered without forced induction. Even a minimal 5-6psi would be enough to overcome the problem. That's how I normally run it, with the boost turned down as low as it can go. At the track I maxed it at 16psi, but that's too laggy for street use. The turbos spool up, and before you know it you're making 700hp and wrapped around a minivan.

I gripe about wanting to move to NZ every 6 months or so, but the feeling goes away after I read the news from Auckland.
post #1469 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

Sorry, but the NSX is too underpowered without forced induction. Even a minimal 5-6psi would be enough to overcome the problem. That's how I normally run it, with the boost turned down as low as it can go. At the track I maxed it at 16psi, but that's too laggy for street use. The turbos spool up, and before you know it you're making 700hp and wrapped around a minivan.
I gripe about wanting to move to NZ every 6 months or so, but the feeling goes away after I read the news from Auckland.

if I had to add forced induction Id probs use a supercharger (if possible) but my ideal dream car (that is realistic) would be an pristine NSX Type S. If I want a ricer...... 1000 bhp GTR tongue_smile.gif

post #1470 of 7166
Thread Starter 
Oh, forgot to mention that the digital shifter knob came in, and it really is the business. Not technically worthwhile in any shape or fashion, but the blue LEDs look very cool (and it works). Actually, I take that back, it has a good feel to it, so that's something. smily_headphones1.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by veyrongatti View Post

if I had to add forced induction Id probs use a supercharger (if possible) but my ideal dream car (that is realistic) would be an pristine NSX Type S. If I want a ricer...... 1000 bhp GTR tongue_smile.gif

Any forced induction will do, turbo systems for the Acura are just better developed, more fuel efficient, and more durable, especially when paired with an ample-sized intercooler. Having driven the newer GT-R, I have to say that it's pretty overrated. I thought the interior wasn't that impressive (too "teenage boy racer"), the seats weren't much better than sitting on boulders, and the transmission was too jerky. Also, AWD sports cars aren't my cup of tea, I prefer a RWD chassis with a good LSD. I'm not fond of torque steer, and the Nissan develops it at odd moments making for some unexpected switches from over to understeer. Meh. Oh, and the brakes were good, but too grabby, causing some awkward stops on roads, leaving folks behind you freaking out and swerving to avoid plowing into your butt. Frankly, it's a peach of a track car, but not a good road car, and $100k is a lot for a toy, when you can get a Cobra kit or Atom for half the price (and they'd mop the tarmac with it).
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