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Breaking-in headphones, the final verdict! - Page 4

post #46 of 59

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post

You know what I am saying, yet you are calling me to task based on a literalism.

 

No I don't, because if you were generalizing your whole point would be so invalid you wouldn't have made it in the first place.

 

Saying, "In no instance...." is not a generalization.  

 

Yes I am, because that's the very burden those who cling solely to empiricism choose to carry.  This isn't Burger King.  If someone wants to light a fire I have no problem holding their feet to it.

post #47 of 59

Fuel for the fire. 

 

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/04/introduction-it-is-generally-known-that.html

 

 

post #48 of 59

Those waterfall plots, both pre- and post-, are terrible.

post #49 of 59

Like!  LOL...

post #50 of 59

I was skeptical at first about break in of headphones... So I purchased two of the same headphones... Both Sennheiser HD 380s... The first I put a few hundred hours on, the second, none... Upon comparing the two, here's what I heard:

 

Note: I marked the two, so as not to mix then up... Also, I used a 'Y' connector, so I could rapidly change from one to the other...

 

1) The overhang and ambience of the broken in headphone was more pronounced... I used the same passages from the same recording, BTW...

 

2) The timbral accuracy of the broken in phones was better...

 

3) The unbroken in headphones sounded more brittle and unforgiving...

 

4) The ear-pads on the broken in phones conformed better to my head, thus producing slightly better bass response...

 

So there it is... At least for me anyway...

 

* Testing was done with a Little Dot LD 1+ with Muses02 opamp and Voshkod tubes...

 

* Program material was Mahler Symphony #4 by DG, cut 3, various excerpts...

 

Note: I am now giving a full spectrum break in to my new Grado PS 500s... I'll report on that in a week or so...

post #51 of 59

Did you compare the two before either of them was "broken in"? Typically headphones of the same make and model can deviate in frequency response 3dB or more from copy to copy.

post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

Did you compare the two before either of them was "broken in"? Typically headphones of the same make and model can deviate in frequency response 3dB or more from copy to copy.

 

On these two pairs, yes... I have several pairs of these, as they are my favorites... At any rate, it was not just a small deviation between the two after break-in... I also understand that there may be a difference between two headphones of the same make and model, although Sennheiser does do a reasonably good job of matching drivers within a certain model over time, in my opinion...

post #53 of 59

Was there a difference before you started? You should subtract that from the difference at the end.

post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

Was there a difference before you started? You should subtract that from the difference at the end.

 

I would say that that would be pretty hard to do, as there didn't seem to be any difference in the overall sound signature... I still have the well broken in ones and the others are still hardly used... I checked them both again, and confirmed my previous... This time I checked: Decay on tympani, piano arpeggio, snare roll... (m.)

post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by signet02 View Post
 

 

I would say that that would be pretty hard to do, as there didn't seem to be any difference in the overall sound signature... I still have the well broken in ones and the others are still hardly used... I checked them both again, and confirmed my previous... This time I checked: Decay on tympani, piano arpeggio, snare roll... (m.)

Interesting. Thanks for this information.

post #56 of 59

Having done blind ABX sessions with other members, there are people who can very easily hear differences between old can-A and brand new can-B... and could consistently pick out each one in a properly run blind ABX.  Thankfully I am not one of those... I just enjoy the tunes.  :o

 

Its all a big moot point though.  Even a properly run blind ABX test is moot (in the does burn in exist? context), until you can find a way to eliminate the effects of random sample population variation.  And even then if you "could" blindly ABX test 100-1000s of samples, there would be no way to eliminate the effects of production batch variation.  Every headphone in existence has production tolerances and process control limits.... they HAVE to, or they would generate more defects than sellable product.

 

When its all said and done and you run the blind ABX to form a definitive conclusion.... how do you know the differences heard are not the cumulative results of production/process variation?

 

If you enjoy the sound, thats all that matters really.  The final verdict is MOOT.


Edited by kramer5150 - 3/8/14 at 10:20am
post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer5150 View Post
 

Having done blind ABX sessions with other members, there are people who can very easily hear differences between old can-A and brand new can-B... and could consistently pick out each one in a properly run blind ABX.  Thankfully I am not one of those... I just enjoy the tunes.  :o

 

Its all a big moot point though.  Even a properly run blind ABX test is moot (in the does burn in exist? context), until you can find a way to eliminate the effects of random sample population variation.  And even then if you "could" blindly ABX test 100-1000s of samples, there would be no way to eliminate the effects of production batch variation.  Every headphone in existence has production tolerances and process control limits.... they HAVE to, or they would generate more defects than sellable product.

 

When its all said and done and you run the blind ABX to form a definitive conclusion.... how do you know the differences heard are not the cumulative results of production/process variation?

 

If you enjoy the sound, thats all that matters really.  The final verdict is MOOT.

 

 

I think it's pretty easy to correct for the production run thing if you start with two of the same model headphones that sound similar enough to begin with... And I think the whole point of this thread is to determine if anyone can hear the difference, right?...

 

And as you point out, some do, and some don't...

 

A practical application of all this, IMO, is to perhaps address the issue of people returning headphones because they sound so disappointing right out of the box, as many of them most decidedly do...

post #58 of 59

When you do this abx'ing ..

How do you make sure the headphones are located EXACTLY the same every time you switch ?

If they are not, the test is void .

post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bufferoverflow View Post
 

When you do this abx'ing ..

How do you make sure the headphones are located EXACTLY the same every time you switch ?

If they are not, the test is void .

 

There's not a whole lot of variance as to how the Senn. HD 380s sit over your ears...  Perhaps with other phones...

 

At any rate, the difference is just too pronounced between the two...

 

These are only my opinions based on my experience with these particular headphones... Your mileage may vary...

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