Altmann Tera Player - Page 54  

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes 

Well duh. Of course it doesn't. The best 16 bit home kit isn't as good as the best vinyl transcription. Lots of vinyl playback sucks as well but when comparing formats you need to compare the best available or you're comparing kit instead. A technics with a MM cartridge is not a good foundation for format evaluation. The best analog costs A LOT but so does the best digital. Thats where you compare formats, where the playback limitaions aren't as severe. It's difficult to get TTs right but extremely rewarding as well.

 

I can easily hear the difference/improvement  between a proper vinyl transcription of 16 and 24 bit dubs on top kit. That would indicate that vinyl has more to offer than 16 bit can transcribe. TTs are tough because so much of the playback chain is often colored but that's kit and not format. I find many opinions senscere but inexperienced when it comes to much of this.

I'm fairly sure its not the format itself, rather its the sucky implementations that are offered of digital - replete with noise modulation. If you got yourself a top grade TDA1541A DAC with all the enhancements and decent output filtering you might begin to see (or rather, hear) 16bit rather differently I suspect. Just my conjecture 

LOL What makes you think I havent? I'm a big fan of ladder DACs and why I like the 1704 with outboard filtering, DSP input clock recovery and linear supplies etc. Trust me, I've likely heard more than you. It's nice that you can seperate the filter portion out on a 1704 like the old 1541 needed output filtering (7220? was common) to begin with, all my early favorites used 1541s. My current favs use 1704s with outboard filtering and it's been that way for a while. The 8x oversampling of 96k of the 1704 also helps with the output filters and phase shift even at 16/44 and without the out of band noise and in band width limiting common to tweaky 1541 setups.

I can think of one reason not to trust you when you say you've heard more than me - that's because TDA1541A is not a ladder DAC. 1704 has glitching and I've not so far to date seen an implementation which deals with this problem, with the result that dynamics suffer. Another reason not to trust what you say - SAA7220 is an input (digital) filter, not an output filter. I was speaking of output filters to reduce glitching in my post, nothing to do with digital filters - I prefer not to use one.

That's why the ? mark was with the 7220. I couldn't remember if that was it's use or did you miss that? I just recalled that they were connected at the hip. I could have looked it up but didn't see the import.

It's not fundamental to the point but thanks for the correction. To reiterate, the point was that modern dacs have self contained output filters.The 1541 does not and the 1704's can be bypassed. The 1541 is definitely a ladder dac as are all r2r DACs so my bases are covered and I don't understand why you think it's not. The 1541 is just bipolar instead of mosfet, likely due to bandwidth requirements.  

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a 1704 used as the engine with better pre and post filtering plus it allows a higher standard overall. It's always about implementation and no doubt that Phillips got it right with the 1541 but there's more now available, even in modern non R2R DACs. This type of zealousness over one part often surprises me.

I will now respect HiFlight's request but wanted to respond to an attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiFlight 

Gentlemen....lets not turn this thread into a sniping or bickering contest. I would suggest any questions as to the Tera hardware be directed to Charles. I think he is best qualified to provide the rationale and technical explanations for the components used in his handiwork.

I think that what he's done with the hardware is novel, ingenious and that he's probably done a great job of picking his compromised. Everything is and most try to do too much to their own detriment. I have absolutely no issue with 16 bit for portable use or accepting that it sounds great. Even if it's the best at it's designed purpose, I just have issue with the notion that nothing could be better at anything including home source for a bunch of rationalized reasons.

I don't think it's the best their ever can be, especially when it comes to home use. But for many it's extremely convenient to use it as a source for a home rig. Also saves on expenses. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes 

I think that what he's done with the hardware is novel, ingenious and that he's probably done a great job of picking his compromised. Everything is and most try to do too much to their own detriment. I have absolutely no issue with 16 bit for portable use or accepting that it sounds great. Even if it's the best at it's designed purpose, I just have issue with the notion that nothing could be better at anything including home source for a bunch of rationalized reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes 

It's not fundamental to the point but thanks for the correction. To reiterate, the point was that modern dacs have self contained output filters.The 1541 does not and the 1704's can be bypassed. The 1541 is definitely a ladder dac as are all r2r DACs so my bases are covered and I don't understand why you think it's not. The 1541 is just bipolar instead of mosfet, likely due to bandwidth requirements.  

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a 1704 used as the engine with better pre and post filtering plus it allows a higher standard overall. It's always about implementation and no doubt that Phillips got it right with the 1541 but there's more now available, even in modern non R2R DACs. This type of zealousness over one part often surprises me.

I don't understand why you think TDA1541A is a ladder DAC - where in the datasheet does it say so? Where does it say its R2R? - just quote the relevant part of the DS. 

What is the standard lead time for one of these Tera players?  I'm really curious now that I've been bitten by the better IEM bug and from the comments here it sounds like the Tera player could be a DAP that cures most upgraditis.  

About 2 weeks, I believe that includes shipping but not sure. Email Charles about it if you wanna get an exact lead time. It's definitely a hell of a player, definitely cured my upgraditis for the most part. It's like alcoholism though, you're always an alcoholic even if you're in recovery and sober for years. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNBC 

What is the standard lead time for one of these Tera players?  I'm really curious now that I've been bitten by the better IEM bug and from the comments here it sounds like the Tera player could be a DAP that cures most upgraditis.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapientiam 

 

I don't understand why you think TDA1541A is a ladder DAC - where in the datasheet does it say so? Where does it say its R2R? - just quote the relevant part of the DS. 

It doesn't as therre was no need to differentiate in 1985. It's all they made until 88. Here you go. http://www.research.philips.com/technologies/projects/cd/technology.html

Good to know, thanks.  Will likely wait until after the Xmas presents have been laid under the tree before I think about myself again (hard to do when I visit this website).  The TP form factor is really enticing.  Enticing enough that I may have to re-think big portable (iPhone + CLAS) and go ultra portable.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenman345 

About 2 weeks, I believe that includes shipping but not sure. Email Charles about it if you wanna get an exact lead time. It's definitely a hell of a player, definitely cured my upgraditis for the most part. It's like alcoholism though, you're always an alcoholic even if you're in recovery and sober for years. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes 

It doesn't as therre was no need to differentiate in 1985. It's all they made until 88. Here you go. http://www.research.philips.com/technologies/projects/cd/technology.html

But the TDA1541A wasn't made in 1985. Philips' earliest players had the TDA1540 which was 14bits. Just quote the part of the TDA1541A datasheet where it says its a ladder DAC, that'll settle the matter.

This is getting silly. They're cut from the same cloth. "The next DAC developed after the TDA1540 was the 16-bit resolution multi-bit DAC TDA1541, well known among audiophiles. As with the TDA1540, the TDA1541 series are multi-bit DACs employing a DEM (dynamic ekement matching) circuit."  Check the 1985 date on this 16 bit DAC datasheet when, I think, all audio DACs were ladder type. http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/TDA1541.pdf The 'a' had the identical DAC portion.

http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_evolution_of_dac_the_digital_filter/ My last post. If this doesn't help, do your own research.

When will you post up the datasheet info which supports your claim that its ladder?