Altmann Tera Player - Page 42  

Well said Andy.

I have not owned (or heard) the iBasso or HifiMan so won't comment on their sound quality but I can agree with your statements on the Tera Player.  Moments before opening HeadFi and reading your post I had commented to a colleague of mine how much I am enjoying my music on the TP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smial1966 

 

Having owned a HiFiMan HM-801, iBasso DX100 and the Tera Player, the TP is the only one I've kept and listen to daily. No it's not perfect and it is damned expensive, but it puts a smile on my face every time I listen to it and to me that's priceless.

 

If a Tera Player skeptic with a reputable track record and suitable equipment for RMAA would like to borrow my TP to assess it's measurements, please PM me and we can discuss how to best do this. But even if the `scientific' quantitative test results suck I don't care, as I trust my ears and they're enveloped in sonic bliss every time that the Tera Player sings!

 

Andy. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakalwe 


I wonder, is that really true? Sound reproduction is not rocket science any more, and there is a point when people know how to build something and that's it. There are many everyday items that have pretty much reached perfection for their purpose, and throwing more money at those might buy a more fancy looking version, but not one that performs better. A cheap mass-produced glass will hold a drink just as well as a hand-made one. I don't know if DAPs have reached a similar point, but they might.
And then there is the economy of scale. The Clip is cheap because it is made in millions, and there is a huge company behind it with specialists for every task in the development and manufacturing, and with their own factories for many of the parts. If some individual set out to make a Clip-copy of their own from scratch, a DAP with specifications, software, materials etc. comparable to the Clip and the same sound - could they do it in at most five years and sell it for at most $830 while still making a profit? I strongly doubt it. Even fairly simple tools like basic pocket knives cost several hundred when they are handmade. A Clip-copy developed and manufactured by an individual would have to cost many thousands. Small manufacturers simply cannot afford the efficient production methods of the big players. Thus I don't think one can draw many conclusions from the price difference between a $30-DAP and a $830-DAP when the production backgrounds are so different.
Regarding trusting the audiophiles' judgement over measurements, I generally don't. That does not mean that the audiophiles are lying, but subjective perceptions are so easily influenced by other factors. I have noticed it on myself: A few years ago I shelled out well over $2,000 for a Sony PCM-D1 in a moment of madness, or maybe due to love at first sight. To me everything sounds just fantastic on that thing. But does it really sound better? I know I start grinning as soon as I hold this machine made of titanium with its beautiful analog VU-meters. How much does my pleasure at owning and handling this device influence my pleasure at listening to it? And on the converse, is there maybe also something in my subconscious that makes me downplay flaws, some inner voice whispering "at $2K it cannot sound just average"? I don't know, and I don't have the means to conduct a proper comparison. I enjoy it the way it is, but no one should trust my judgement regarding its audio qualities, and neither do I trust the judgements of others unless backed up by objective tests.

But you see if you don't trust yourself at all then why bother being in this hobby? Pretty much you are saying you're ears aren't good enough to determine what is good from bad and that you must rely on a machine to tell you this. That's a really sad way to look at things and in that I wouldn't waste my time in this hobby if that was my general attitude. I agree graphs do have their place but they are not the final decision maker for me at all. Not even close. I'll let my ears tell me what is good from bad. I am in this hobby for musical enjoyment and a machine isn't gonna determine that for me 100% of the time. Just not gonna happen and never will.

The Hifiman 601 and Studio V are good examples of this. While they may not measure the greatest they sound really good to my ears and IMO a lot better than an ipod or Sansa Fuze sounded. From the pure enjoyment factor there was no comparison. Yeah the ipod and Fuze played music but failed to really capture me in the music presentation (on an emotional level even). In reality they were just background noise opposed to really engaging me and taking me into the track. My point is I happen to like gear that measures both good and not so good. Does that mean the measurements are right and I'm wrong? I guess the funny part is the DX100 is by far my favorite portable rig and it happens to measure good. But still I also have conflicting viewpoints that do not match up with the graphs. So in the end I'll let my ears determine what I like. Also it can go both ways. You mention placebo effect but can you imagine yourself being a victim of placebo effect due to a graph telling you something is good or bad?

Grab a clip and a cheap pair of headphones and pretend that is the end all lol. Also I don't let myself fall victim to placebo. I'm either gonna love it, meh, or hate it. I'll spend time with it to acclimate myself and at that point I'll make my decision. I always look for flaws though while also looking for the benefits. I also disclose flaws I don't hide things. If the item doesn't live up to my expectations it goes up for sale period. I won't try to justify a purchase out of guilt of spending money on it lol. You could say the one reason I held onto the DX100 was due to the firmware updates. Initially I found it to be great but overtime once acclimated to it I didn't feel it was a big enough upgrade over my Studio V to really keep the item.

But its saving grace was from firmware updates. I noticed the sound quality changing with different updates and it got better and better. That is what kept me holding onto the unit ultimately and glad I did. Otherwise I would really have had sellers remorse :P. It is a night and day difference from all previous firmware updates. 1.1.7 was really good but 1.2.7 took it to another level. Before 1.1.7 I didn't think the unit was much better at all than my Studio V. Now it is comparable to my desktop rig on 1.2.7. If you were to do a side by side test with the older and newer firmware you wouldn't believe you are listening to the same devices.

I agree, this is all a bit silly. Notice how long time owners have yet to comment on this thread since all this sillyness began. I find it really annoying that this behavior is going on when everywhere else on the forums is relatively civil and informative, besides when someone comes on saying Beats are the best, then it's a who can throw more tomatoes competition. 

Anyways, I was fortunate to buy my Tera Player from someone that wished to start a desktop rig and didnt feel they needed the Tera Player anymore. I got it for a great price and would have happily paid full price but I didnt have to. I am way past any honeymoon period from first receiving the device and it honestly has been a great joy owning it. It sounds wonderful through my CIEM's, wonderful in my car, wonderful with pretty much everything I use it with. Since first receiving it, I have not picked up my iPod except for listening to podcasts. My spending costs on audio gear has become virtually nothing as i mainly need a portable rig and mine is pretty much set for a while.

Would RMAA tests be nice so I can get more of you non-believers to believe me, well of course they would. But this argument is silly. So far at least two members, (myself and smial1966) have offered without hesitation to allow someone to RMAA test our device. smial1966 a bit more okay with shipping it away, but still, we both are not against the test, just don't see the entire value of the test since we both know it sounds great. Regardless of what anyone else says, the Tera Player is extremely easy to listen to for hours at a time without fatigue. It is extremely realistic and as a computer scientist, to me my Tera Player inspires me to be innovative in my work. To do things the right way, and that in itself made me wanna get the device to support the efforts of Charles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smial1966 

Well this is all getting rather silly isn't it?

 

The last Tera Player (TP) thread was locked by moderators because of vitriolic and probably libelous comments by non TP owners who were determined to besmirch Charles Altmann. Moreover, they implied that ALL TP owners were collectively suffering from a mass delusion by praising the sonic qualities of this diminutive little player.

 

Now I'm all for debate and expressing ones opinion, but when comments are based on supposition and not fact, then these observations become disingenuous by their very nature. So if you don't own a Tera Player, PLEASE STOP insinuating that everyone that does is an idiot that's been deluded by a charlatan marketing a costly product, as we know what sounds good and gives us musical pleasure. 

 

Having owned a HiFiMan HM-801, iBasso DX100 and the Tera Player, the TP is the only one I've kept and listen to daily. No it's not perfect and it is damned expensive, but it puts a smile on my face every time I listen to it and to me that's priceless.

 

If a Tera Player skeptic with a reputable track record and suitable equipment for RMAA would like to borrow my TP to assess it's measurements, please PM me and we can discuss how to best do this. But even if the `scientific' quantitative test results suck I don't care, as I trust my ears and they're enveloped in sonic bliss every time that the Tera Player sings!

 

Andy. 

I thought we established you are just some random guy.....try and be a bit kinder....this is a community of many types of people. You have been making it very unenjoyable for me and others to talk about a device we really love. I understand how you can feel, I hate friends that say Beats are the best and then I ask if they buy Monster HDMI Cables. They all say, "No that's overpriced crap you can get for much less from another brand." I say, "Exactly".....do they still think Beats are great? yea, they do. Do I troll them about it? No, because they all know I have heard tons of things that are better and I usually expose them to better audio somehow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skamp 

That would be very nice. I'd do it, but this is probably as good as measurements with my sound card can get (i.e. if the Tera Player is better than that, my sound card probably can't show it).

We have to admit it that the Tera Player is a quite unique player.I haven't heard this DAP yet, but what Charles did nobody else have ever tried.

So how is possible to achive such an amazing SQ, only to developing your own gear and build it from scratch, so you can have it the way you desired.

How many Tera Players oweners are out there?

I'd say a good many Tera Players are out there. I think a fair guess of Forum members is somewhere around 15-25.

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicday 

We have to admit it that the Tera Player is a quite unique player.I haven't heard this DAP yet, but what Charles did nobody else have ever tried.

So how is possible to achive such an amazing SQ, only to developing your own gear and build it from scratch, so you can have it the way you desired.

How many Tera Players oweners are out there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiEx 

 

Pardon me, but DX100 isn't Sigma-Delta based. It has es9018 which is a totally different than popular sigma-delta and is a kind of its own. The only problem with es9018 may be poor implementation. Probably es9018 won't find a good portable implementation in a long time.

 

Plenty of smoke being blown on this thread of late I see  ESS is Sigma-Delta based for sure, just its more refined than the rest. Check out this vid from one of the designers. Warning - its long but you could learn a lot about DACs - http://mdiyab.blogspot.com/2012/07/ess-technology-sabre-dacs-martin.html#.ULb6M6zAh5E

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapientiam 

 

Plenty of smoke being blown on this thread of late I see 

This is Head-Fi after all. A veritable cornucopia of opinions! 

Haven't heard nor seen the Tera Player yet, but is it the same size and shape as a Sony mini disk player, or Cowon D2? Is really nice if it is that small, as photos don't do it any justice.Wonder if Charles will have special discounts for Christmas, that will be good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenman345 

.. So far at least two members, (myself and smial1966) have offered without hesitation to allow someone to RMAA test our device. smial1966 a bit more okay with shipping it away, but still, we both are not against the test, just don't see the entire value of the test since we both know it sounds great. ..

Sure you can take mine to test too. If you are willing to come to Thailand for the test. 

Wow, just came across this.http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&ei=zj63UKrQPOqo0AX1oIHwBw&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Daltmann%2Btera%2Bplayer%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1600%26bih%3D805&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=ru&u=http://www.altmann.haan.de/turntable/&usg=ALkJrhh5ootwfdwSlCl8bI7sJ2VgWZZvSA

Very smart Mr.Charles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapientiam 

 

Plenty of smoke being blown on this thread of late I see  ESS is Sigma-Delta based for sure, just its more refined than the rest. Check out this vid from one of the designers. Warning - its long but you could learn a lot about DACs - http://mdiyab.blogspot.com/2012/07/ess-technology-sabre-dacs-martin.html#.ULb6M6zAh5E

Thanks for information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suicidal_orange 

I've got a Xonar D2X, the box says it's good for recording but that might be marketing. I don't really know what I'm looking for spec wise, would it be good enough?

According to http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_D2X/#specifications and http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_xonar_d2x_sound_card_review,6.html this soundcard is good enough to perform a reliable RMAA measurement.