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The hate on beats, why? - Page 27  

post #391 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coq de Combat View Post
 

 

The reality is that we are talking about a company, a business, conducting research involving their competitions' products. Think of it like this: would you trust a medical company's research findings, that would indicate that their products are superior to their competitions' products? Especially when no scientifically relevant parts of the study are disclosed?

 

After all, no matter who conducts the study -- Harman, their competition, or even Feynman -- there are certain reliability and validity issues to consider before making any real assumptions from it (especially sweeping conclusions that "beats sound signature isn't preferred"). That's why methods are usually openly discussed, because there is no 'flawless' method. We wouldn't want any kind of bias going on here, right? 

 

what about the other Harman competitors in the study that people prefer more than Beats?    

post #392 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by thievesarmy View Post
 

 

Speak for yourself there - I think Beats look extremely ugly & tacky. It's worse now that they have really caught on and so there's an over-exposure effect, but I have hated their cheap style & design from day one.  

I still think they look decent alone, but I agree that they look tacky on people. Granted there are not many headphones that look good on people.

 

Anyways I always thought that the beats hate was well deserved. Why as an audio community should we even give them excuses to sell overpriced headphones to the average consumer. Its annoying when a $100 headphone sounds better than a headphone 2-3X its price, and that $100 headphone does not sound that amazing in the first place. Same goes for bose or anybody else who takes advantage of people at selling a subpar headphone at a high cost. Skullcandy at least makes some ok stuff at the cost they sell it at, in fact I actually heard decent things about one of their gaming headphones. $300 can buy you a damn good headphone in this day in age, and until Monsters and Beats ups the ante by making decent headphones they deserve every bit of hate they can get.

post #393 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreak054 View Post
 

I still think they look decent alone, but I agree that they look tacky on people. Granted there are not many headphones that look good on people.

 

Anyways I always thought that the beats hate was well deserved. Why as an audio community should we even give them excuses to sell overpriced headphones to the average consumer. Its annoying when a $100 headphone sounds better than a headphone 2-3X its price, and that $100 headphone does not sound that amazing in the first place. Same goes for bose or anybody else who takes advantage of people at selling a subpar headphone at a high cost. Skullcandy at least makes some ok stuff at the cost they sell it at, in fact I actually heard decent things about one of their gaming headphones. $300 can buy you a damn good headphone in this day in age, and until Monsters and Beats ups the ante by making decent headphones they deserve every bit of hate they can get.

I think Beats are 50% fashion and 50% headphones.  They are surely listenable headphones for a lot of music.  However it's sort of like buying sunglasses.  You can buy a $20 pair of shades and still get the sun protection and all that jazz, but designer sunglasses are going to run you much much more just for the look.

 

That being said, how they market them as studio quality headphones is ridiculous.


Edited by TsukiNick - 1/24/14 at 12:34pm
post #394 of 1217

I appreciate that Beats let me teach my son a lesson on value.  He got a pair of Beats as a gift.  One afternoon I asked him to bring the headphones over and had him listen to Green Day.  I then plugged in a far cheaper Grado sr80 and asked him to listen again.  He was amazed at the mid-range detail which the Beats had rendered as a muddy mess.  My son inherited my sr80s which he uses to this day.  Thanks Beats for helping me teach my son a lesson in quality and perception.  


Edited by jedx02 - 1/24/14 at 12:32pm
post #395 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by TsukiNick View Post
 

I think Beats are 50% fashion and 50% headphones.  They are surely listenable headphones for a lot of music.  However it's sort of like buying sunglasses.  You can buy a $20 pair of shades and still get the sun protection and all that jazz, but designer sunglasses are going to run you much much more just for the look.

 

That being said, how they market them as studio quality headphones is ridiculous.

Still this is an headphone forum, and I still do not think we should support such a company. They are not entirely selling them as a fashion item either. They still claim that they are selling high end sound. I think they claimed something like they wanted you to truly listen to music the way it should sound. 

 

Not to go off on a tangent but sunglasses are a bit different. I bought a pair of oakleys for $80 and I find the clarity a bit better, they fit my head really well, and they have taken quite a bit of abuse that normal $20 sunglasses would not have taken. In comparison to beats their $300 model is really not all that sturdy of what they could be. 

post #396 of 1217

Well the sound is relatively high end compared to what people would normally buy.  Plus it gets people used to the fact headphones should be somewhat expensive.  Generally speaking customers at where I work don't seem to care about audio quality they just pick up a pair of whatever JVCs are available for 15 bucks (My parents included)  Although the JVCs they bought at least came with a really nice 1/4th inch adapter.

 

People can come in looking at the Beats/Bose I show them a few other headphones and let them make up their mind.  For the people that like a lot of bass I'll recommend the Sony MDR-X10s for $99.

post #397 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearMe View Post
 

   

Having worked in the past as a Storage Systems Product Specialist for a very large Hardware/Software company, I can assure you that we had similar findings about our products besting our competition from Japan on all fronts.  

 

 

This is particularly funny because the findings does not state that any Harman-owned brand product is the best, instead they use the HD800 & LCD2. So I guess Harman is promoting competitor's product here?

post #398 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

It appears that 'sonic preference' is the same for everyone irrespective of age, culture, and job.

 

Got this link from another thread, try reading it from the start. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16343460/Olive%20ALMA%202014%20Winter%20Symposium%20Headphone%20Talk%20copy.key.pdf 

 

At the end of the day, Beats house sound is not preferable after all...

page 10 says: GOOD AGREEMENT AMONG TRAINED LISTENERS ON HEADPHONE PREFERENCES.

 

lol if it was a random piece of the population they would pick the bassiest aka the studios duhhhhhhhhh

post #399 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilboozy View Post
 

page 10 says: GOOD AGREEMENT AMONG TRAINED LISTENERS ON HEADPHONE PREFERENCES.

 

lol if it was a random piece of the population they would pick the bassiest aka the studios duhhhhhhhhh

 

did you read it till the end? Page 50: 186 untrained listeners from various colleges around the world. Please don't just read few pages and claims that you already know what you're talking about :wink_face:

post #400 of 1217
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post

This is particularly funny because the findings does not state that any Harman-owned brand product is the best, instead they use the HD800 & LCD2. So I guess Harman is promoting competitor's product here?

 

Wow!  It seems like you missed a key point on their results.  The 'Harman Target Curve' was the most preferred sound signature -- even more so than the Almighty HD800 and the LCD2.

 

These results can be viewed on the graph on page 50 in the 'research findings'.  

 

Since 'The Harman Target Curve' received the highest preference/ratings, it's either just a 'happy coincidence' being faithfully reported by unbiased researchers with no 'axe to grind'...or it's possible that they might just benefit from results that appear to establish Harman as the thought leader in this space AND also the vendor with the best sound signature model.

 

Question...based on that graph, what company would most people assume would be able to achieve the highest correlation of headphone sound signature with the highly preferred sound signature, 'The Harman Target Curve', in the 'study'?  I wonder if down the road we'll learn about that high sound signature correlation with the K812s or possibly the JBL "Tim McGraws!   ;-)

 


 

Beyond all of this, the earlier statements made by Coq de Combat definitely hold water.  This presentation is a hodge-podge of material (multiple papers referenced with a few graphs interspersed) that was cobbled together in a fashion that makes it impossible to tell one way or the other if a sound research process was followed.  

 

When such a presentation of findings is combined with a sweeping statement for their conclusion that could be interpreted as self-serving, then Coq de Comabt's questions regarding assumptions, methodologies, etc. are certainly valid.  That said, it's entirely possible that their process is unbiased and the results are repeatable by other researchers.  It would be much easier to discern this if we could read the findings instead of relying on a PowerPoint pitch.

 


Food for thought -- Any guesses on what model of the Beats Studio was used in this 'research study'?

post #401 of 1217

I don't necessarily hate beats. THey did do some good for the market. For example:

- it's become more acceptable to wear headphones outside

- brought in a new market

- made companies bring out new, portable, good looking headphones (Senn Momentum, Sony MDR 1R, Logitech UE 6000, etc.)

 

I dont like them because:

- I didn't like the sound of my friends Studios or Solo's

- I liked the Mixr's (not for the price however), but they're uncomfortable. So so uncomfortable. Good looking though

- Misleading -sometimes outright lying- marketing

- Beats owners thinking they are better than people who don't have them, and being very very vocal about it.

- Owners thinking they are gangster. Honestly hate this. Anyone not in Compton or such places has NO right to act, speak, or dress like a "gangster". (My brother and cousins do this and love beats. I'm sure you can understand why it annoys me so much)

- Price

 

Again, I don't HATE them. I dislike them. I am willing to look at the positive influence they have had, unlike some others  haha.

 

EDIT: Keep in mind I have yet to try out the new Studios or the new Solo HD (if they changes more than just the colour). Need to wait for one of my friends to buy them hahaha


Edited by SlimShadyMJ - 1/24/14 at 6:47pm
post #402 of 1217

Reason number 7,648 to not buy beats:  P.P.P = Police Product Profiling.     Law enforcement will assume you are a member of a criminal organization (ie. gangbanger)

post #403 of 1217
I'm kind of amazed how few have tried the new studios. Did the new solos change anything other than color?
post #404 of 1217

I think the drivers are the same in the Solos. I'mma check to see if we have the new Studios up on display where I work or if they are the old ones.  Is there a distinguishing trait that will be a dead give away if it's the new or old?

post #405 of 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by TsukiNick View Post

I think the drivers are the same in the Solos. I'mma check to see if we have the new Studios up on display where I work or if they are the old ones.  Is there a distinguishing trait that will be a dead give away if it's the new or old?


In the studios? Yes, they are a complete redesign. No monster logo anywhere. No screws visible on the new ones. No idea on the solos.
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