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Final Audio Design Muramasa VIII - Page 9

post #121 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

What the heck is wrong with companies and people these days? confused_face_2.gif

 

For $8k you can get some very very good speakers for that amount that will blow any headphone/amp setup into the mist. Not to mention no pain will be involved.


I think we've had this conversation before...

 

Plus FAD is about bling/art/style/whatever as much as sound anyway and those markets don't have any objective standards of value.

post #122 of 352

It was bad enough trying to compare headphones against one another to establish some kind of universal value (ie. trying to figure out "how many LCD-2s" an LCD-3 is worth), but now speakers? : p

 

Both headphones and speakers are designed with very different needs in mind. Many lack the space, have thin walls and up-tight neighbors, a partner who you don't want to annoy, children, or some other circumstantial reason to not use full-sized speakers.

post #123 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post


I think we've had this conversation before...

 

Plus FAD is about bling/art/style/whatever as much as sound anyway and those markets don't have any objective standards of value.



If you put it that way, then I'd recommend FAD to use that money to go check themselves out. Correct me if I'm wrong but what do you mean "those market's don't have any objective standards of value", the whole point of us, the community here is to discuss about audio related items, hence why I mentioned that at that price, for sound you may as well go for speakers, even with speakers certain serious people call it art and style. I mean seriously $8k is a bit wrong? Calling it ridiculous is an understatement.

post #124 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

It was bad enough trying to compare headphones against one another to establish some kind of universal value (ie. trying to figure out "how many LCD-2s" an LCD-3 is worth), but now speakers? : p

 

Both headphones and speakers are designed with very different needs in mind. Many lack the space, have thin walls and up-tight neighbors, a partner who you don't want to annoy, children, or some other circumstantial reason to not use full-sized speakers.


I wasn't comparing anything otherwise I would've written examples of a bananas and apples comparison, I just said from my own opinion that at that price if your after sound, or what you call from an audiophile's perspective, you may as well go with speakers.

 

But hey, if you have the money and only after "bling" then be my guest go forth with your purchases, there is nothing I can do or intervene with that.

 


Edited by DefQon - 3/10/12 at 10:01pm
post #125 of 352

Final markets high-end audio art pieces to collectors. They have a clientele. Their products sell. The Muramasa VIII will sell, just as their $3000 IEMs and $70,000 designer speakers sell.

 

You can't establish the worth and value of something like this inside a vacuum IMHO. You're considering sound quality only, and that's fine. I'm not knocking that. However the Muramasa VIII isn't something to be considered with that criteria alone. It seems insane when viewed from those standards just as a blimp seems like an insane mode of transport to work for someone looking for a new car.


Edited by MuppetFace - 3/10/12 at 10:16pm
post #126 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

For $8k you can get some very very good speakers...


Not from this company. Maybe taking a look at their speakers will help you to put things into perspective... wink.gif

post #127 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post


Not from this company. Maybe taking a look at their speakers will help you to put things into perspective... wink.gif



Speakers are understandable (have seen a more extreme and expensive speaker setup then this in real life).

post #128 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Speakers are understandable (have seen a more extreme and expensive speaker setup then this in real life).


So, to sum up your argument, $600k for speakers are understandable, but $8k for headphones are more than ridiculous.

post #129 of 352

I heard from a little bird that they're likely going to be around the high-6k range, rather than 8000, if it makes anyone feel any better...

 

 

Yeah, probably not.

post #130 of 352

When people who have more disposable income than I do buy things I'm not interested in, I find it hard to use price as grounds for criticizing their decisions.

 

I've seen people spend more on paintings with no audiophilic advantages whatsoever.

post #131 of 352

Just think of Final as Headphile, which is almost universally revered around these parts. Both companies admit and are proud of the fact that their products are good-sounding art, not that they're competitive with anything at their price range sonically.

post #132 of 352

Objective standards of value? Where do I buy a valuometer? Somethings value is a subjective assessment, subjective by definition...

 

Kevin

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post


I think we've had this conversation before...

 

Plus FAD is about bling/art/style/whatever as much as sound anyway and those markets don't have any objective standards of value.



 

post #133 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3oxkjo View Post

Objective standards of value? Where do I buy a valuometer? Somethings value is a subjective assessment, subjective by definition...


There's always a large subjective element but most other things have some grounding in reality outside the human mind like fitness for a purpose, rare and necessary materials, or something like that.  There's only so much you can change something before it loses all practical value and doesn't perform any function and that's when it becomes pure bling/art/style/whatever.  Paintings, sculptures, movies, entertainment, etc are like that.  Their value as what they are is entirely dependent upon the mind that perceives it.

 

Something like a car has a particular job to do and how well it does it is determined by physics.  No one's opinion will change how fast it is, how well it handles, its fuel economy, or its safety.  How you rank or weight those factors and if you even think you need a car in the first place are all subjective but its value is still tied to objective reality in some way since there are some factors that will never change with anyone's mind.  That's why I put "any" in italics.

post #134 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post


There's always a large subjective element but most other things have some grounding in reality outside the human mind like fitness for a purpose, rare and necessary materials, or something like that.  There's only so much you can change something before it loses all practical value and doesn't perform any function and that's when it becomes pure bling/art/style/whatever.  Paintings, sculptures, movies, entertainment, etc are like that.  Their value as what they are is entirely dependent upon the mind that perceives it.

 

Something like a car has a particular job to do and how well it does it is determined by physics.  No one's opinion will change how fast it is, how well it handles, its fuel economy, or its safety.  How you rank or weight those factors and if you even think you need a car in the first place are all subjective but its value is still tied to objective reality in some way since there are some factors that will never change with anyone's mind.  That's why I put "any" in italics.

"...but most other things have some grounding in reality outside the human mind".

 

I have no idea how to assess reality without a human mind. biggrin.gif

 

"Paintings, sculptures, movies, entertainment, etc are like that. Their value as what they are is entirely dependent upon the mind that perceives it."

 

That's the point, EVERYTHINGS value is entirely dependent upon the mind that perceives it. Things without minds find no value in anything...  

 

So what we know about the Muramasa:

 

a) It will be expensive

b) We know we don't know how it sounds (yet)

c) Some will consider it a bad "value" however good it may be

d) Some will consider buying it an immoral act

e) Some will buy it cause they can

 

In my entirely subjective view, if as an overall package, it is as good (in however one would assess this) as Sony R-10/Qualia, Sennheiser Orpheus, Stax SR-009 or LCD-3 phones with the inevitable $1500 aftermarket cable and dedicated amp, one would have to say that it could be justified as a "good value" (as others have obviously done with the aformentioned).

 

And it's value may be an entirely seperate issue from my inability to afford it. redface.gif

 

Kevin

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

post #135 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3oxkjo View Post

 

That's the point, EVERYTHINGS value is entirely dependent upon the mind that perceives it.

 

 

I believe maverickronin's point was that our subjective values are INFORMED by certain objective qualities at times, not that the values we hold themselves are objective.

 

In other words, the value we assign to something is subjective, yes, but we can base those subjective assessments on certain objective facts at times.


Edited by MuppetFace - 3/13/12 at 9:12am
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