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The Beyerdynamic DT250 Appreciation Thread - Page 40

post #586 of 733
Thread Starter 
You are entitled to believe whatever you want. All I can say about that is that I am not making things up when I say they are different. I am as sure they are different sounding as I have a d%%k and B77ls hahaha
post #587 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryvadeum View Post


Yeah but this is headfi - the land of hyperbole and denial.

 

This. Especially in appreciation threads.

post #588 of 733

I do buy your argument. In fact, skepticism is good, even inevitable, though all one can do become only critiquing "texts" people post here, unless one compares the dt250 80 and 250 ohms himself. Then, one can proceed to discuss the next level: individual differences in the resolution of one's first-hand experience. For example, 

 

apple and orange (can) taste very different. If the difference is one's standard yardstick, then red apple and green apple can taste virtually the same. Now, if you focus on apple and green apple, sure there's difference in a good magnitude that majority can tell. The question is, is the red vs.green apple difference (80 vs. 250 ohms of dt250) big enough to be noteworthy? 

 

One way, which is the way most dt250(250ohm)ers tend to embrace, is to assess that against speaker-like neutrality (that subjectively described as "naturalness"). I personally say it's the kind of neutrality as discussed by Lunatique and others in ttp://www.head-fi.org/t/564465/misconception-of-neutral-accurate

 

After going through all that, I have to agree with donunus' and others' impression about the 80 and 250 ohm differences. While graph never shows whole strata of human listening experience, still it reflects a layer of one's experience for sure, and it happened to show well the audible 80 and 250ohm differences (e.g., as donunus and/or saint panda articulate, 80 ohm's bloated low, forward mid, rolled off high, relative to 250ohm). The graph is somewhere in this thread. 


Edited by threefolds - 9/22/13 at 12:49am
post #589 of 733

I agree with you mostly, but it is probably rather impractical for most people here to test out both versions, especially since this is not a 'popular' headphone. Without the means of A/B-ing them, they would have to go by people's impressions/reviews. 

 

As for the graphs, I have seen them but I am not sure the methodology of obtaining them is well explained. What had been done to minimize the influence of headphone position to the measurements? Were both headphones driven properly, with similar damping factors? With all these uncertainties, it is impossible to come to either conclusion. And frankly, the people who claim that they are the same/mildly different/vastly different all have about the same credit to me, i.e. as much credit as any stranger on the Internet I've never met have.

 

I am not aiming to persuade anyone, I just think they should make their decisions with a healthy amount of skepticism. (This is not aimed at any previous poster in this thread but rather the forum in general) There seem to be a lot of over enthusiasm and hyperbole in the Head-Fi community, and I just like to think that I'm being helpful by offering a different perspective. :wink: 

post #590 of 733
The saga of the $27.80 DT-250 from Amazon continues. I just got a notice to expect delivery between December 2 and January 18. Who knows if this will ever pan out, but the dream is alive--lol.
post #591 of 733

Trust me, disillusion, tests are done in fairly controlled manner (they're controlled beyond your imagination or anything you've doubted ttp://en.goldenears.net/388)

 

Things are relative, as you might want to insist, but also never really flat. Irony is that strong advocate of democracy  (e.g. let's respect variety of opinions) tend to discriminate those who hold something against it. In other words,

 

"the people who claim that they are the same/mildly different/vastly different all have about the same credit to me"

 

to me means "please forgive me avoiding risk to make judgment about it (just now)", which is also how I am against unfamiliar matter and it's valid perspective. And, as you may already know, such perspective doesn't discount the fact that some people here participate in building something out of sharing experience with the aim of limiting possible conclusion about 80 vs. 250 ohm difference, even if that "something" was far from perfect. 

 

Unable to recognize the difference between 80 and 250 ohm ver. of dt250 is really no longer a matter of opinion at this point. It's only about amount/depth of learning to listen to music through both dt250s. Frankly speaking, one doesn't know/cannot tell the difference because of ignorance (where most of us in most aspect of life stand). So it's perfectly normal for those who don't own dt250s to ask owners about them. It's just strange when non-owners - based off of their belief-system alone - try to disprove us owners experiential opinions. I mean they are free to question as much as they want, but it'll be strange if they start to draw any conclusions ("there's no difference" "difference is small/big" etc.) about 80-250 ohm difference.

 

Real question is, how much does the 80-250 ohm difference means to each one of us personally? and not if there's any differences. Why don't you find that out yourself, since all we dt250 owners can do is to offer "opinions" others can endlessly doubt? I just remembered that there's some quote, too, in this thread, from Beyerdynamic engineer to explain the difference between 80 and 250 ohms. 


Edited by threefolds - 9/22/13 at 5:43am
post #592 of 733
post #593 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post

The saga of the $27.80 DT-250 from Amazon continues. I just got a notice to expect delivery between December 2 and January 18. Who knows if this will ever pan out, but the dream is alive--lol.

 

 I received the same email.  That seems like a long time to wait.  I'll probably forget that I even ordered them by that point.

post #594 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by threefolds View Post
 

Trust me, disillusion, tests are done in fairly controlled manner (they're controlled beyond your imagination or anything you've doubted ttp://en.goldenears.net/388)

 

If you mean the Golden Ears measurement http://en.goldenears.net/10680, I'm sorry to tell you that they have only measured the 80ohm version. There were two other graphs provided by donunus showing the 'difference' between the 250ohm and 80ohm one but the source and methodology is unknown. Next time you might want to check your sources before you say things like "trust me". 

If you want a good source, maybe you can send both the 80ohms and 250ohms to Tyll of Innerfidelity for measurements that are made under more controlled circumstances.

 

Things are relative, as you might want to insist, but never really flat. Irony is that strong advocate of democracy  (e.g. let's respect variety of opinions) tend to discriminate those who hold something against it. In other words,

 

"the people who claim that they are the same/mildly different/vastly different all have about the same credit to me"

 

to me means "please forgive me avoiding risk to make judgment about it (just now)", which I think is perfectly normal and valid perspective. And, as you may already know, such perspective doesn't discount the fact that some people here participate in building something out of sharing experience with the aim of limiting possible conclusion about 80 vs. 250 ohm difference, even if that "something" was far from perfect. 

 

If you want to take it like that, feel free to do so. I have already decided what I would do should I want to order these headphones. I just mean that people should make their own minds up regardless of other people's opinions (or just takes people's claims as opinions not fact). Since the information is not perfect nor complete, different people can look at the same info and come to different conclusions logically, just like stock analysts looking at a company's report and coming up with different buy/sell ratings. 

 

Unable to recognize the difference between 80 and 250 ohm ver. of dt250 is really no longer a matter of opinion at this point. It's only about amount/depth of learning to listen to music through both dt250s. Frankly speaking, one doesn't know/cannot tell the difference because of ignorance. So it's perfectly normal for those who don't own dt250s to ask owners about them. It's just strange when non-owners -based off of their belief-systems alone- try to disprove us owners experiential opinions. 

 

Yes it is a matter of opinion still. When you are dealing with sensory systems and how the brain interprets the signals, there is a significant of variation among people and how they perceive things. Some people taste things when they hear a sound (just google synesthesia). Some people call a colour green whilst others call it blue. There is still a lot of debate between what is audible and not (even when there is measurable difference), and the methods used to test these hypotheses, you just need to visit the sound science forum to see it. Perception is not perfectly translatable between people. If person A hears the difference, it doesn't mean person B will do too. And vice versa. 

 

Real question is, how much does the 80-250 ohm difference means to each one of us personally? and not if there's any differences. 

I don't agree with your assumption that everyone will hear the differences. Neither of us currently can prove or disprove this assumption, because we don't have the means to test it out on enough people to make a good sample size. Actually I just need one negative sample point to conclude that your experience does not translate to everyone, which is already provided earlier. 

 

Why don't you find that out yourself, since all we dt250 owners can do is to offer "opinions" others can endlessly doubt? I just remembered that there's some quote, too, in this thread, from Beyerdynamic engineer to explain the difference between 80 and 250 ohms. 

 

Yes I think it is an opinion you offered, but I do not endlessly doubt you because there is no need to. I just don't think your experience will necessarily translate to me. I base my decisions on what is practical for me - which is cheaper? which is easier to get? etc. But I don't think there need to be anymore debate between us because you have decided they are different and I have decided that I don't care. I am writing such a long reply because I think I am contributing too - by telling others that it is really just mostly opinions here, and suggesting people who cannot decide to take a step back and consider other pros and cons, and not focus too much on the differences.


Edited by disillusion - 9/22/13 at 7:34am
post #595 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by namaiki View Post
 

The quote you are probably referring to: http://www.head-fi.org/t/598201/the-beyerdynamic-dt250-appreciation-thread/255#post_8525853

 

Thanks for the information. I am not familiar enough with acoustic engineering to know that whether the higher mass of the moving coil in the 80ohms version would affect the whole frequency range or just the bass as some people noted. If anyone knows better and have some sort of mathematical model, I would like to know.

post #596 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylv View Post
 

 

 I received the same email.  That seems like a long time to wait.  I'll probably forget that I even ordered them by that point.

 

Then it'll be a wonderful surprise! Haha I'm in the same boat as the rest of you.

 
Quick question for donunus, on your profile it says you don't even own these headphones anymore?
post #597 of 733
Thread Starter 
^^The graphs I posted were from doctorhead.ru by the way
post #598 of 733
Thread Starter 
Hojomojo, Yes I don't own them anymore. I sold them not because I didn't like the sound. I sold them because I needed more isolation at the moment plus pleather pads work better where i live because sweaty velour pads get kind of smelly in the long term. After just listening to a t70p, custom one pro and a T1, I appreciate the dt250-250 even more. I don't like the premiumline or teslas at all. They are clean (t70p and t1) but wheres the mids? LOL The guy tuning the beyer consumer line are definitely not into mids like the sennheiser guys smily_headphones1.gif
post #599 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post

The saga of the $27.80 DT-250 from Amazon continues. I just got a notice to expect delivery between December 2 and January 18. Who knows if this will ever pan out, but the dream is alive--lol.

 

Same boat here, except the email I received gave a delivery range of November 25th through January 13th.  I just want to know if I'm going to get the headphones or something else.  I can deal with waiting if I know I'm actually going to get them.  If I'm going to get the wrong item or a gag prize, I would rather just cancel now.  But I guess its time to play the waiting game some more.

post #600 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott04 View Post

Same boat here, except the email I received gave a delivery range of November 25th through January 13th.  I just want to know if I'm going to get the headphones or something else.  I can deal with waiting if I know I'm actually going to get them.  If I'm going to get the wrong item or a gag prize, I would rather just cancel now.  But I guess its time to play the waiting game some more.

For a $27.80 bet, I say let it ride. Reading through this thread, it sounds like the DT-250 (250 ohms) are solid cans and you're going to want to shoot yourself if you cancel and Santa brings everyone else a killer deal. If you get the pads (and I think the odds are low of that happening), just return 'em.
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