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My #1 gripe with head-fi forum members - Page 31

post #451 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetaWolf View Post

I'm going to get trashed for this, I'm sure... but I think a lot of the hate towards the mass-market brands on this forum is us being part hipster.

I'm confused by this. Most of the headphones discussed on this forum ARE mass market brands. Companies such as Sony, AKG, etc have been around for quite some time and get frequent nods from the community.

post #452 of 503

I think that very often the descriptions of headphones and other audio gear are not very useful in themselves, they need a lot more context than just the simple statement.

 

An obvious one I see all the time is that the AKG K701 headphones are "good for classical". I have AKG K701s and yes, I do listen to classical, but I mostly listen to chamber music so it is really difficult to say that the AKG K701s are inherently better in some way than my Sennheiser HD540 headphones for listening to the classical that I listen to.

 

It is good to give some context when giving advice about things, to say, where you are coming from.

 

The statement that AKG K701s are "good for classical" for example could be usefully placed in context if the person making it also says:

 

1. I have never used the AKG K701s.

2. I never listen to classical music.

 

The AKG K701s do have some great abilities which are useful for listening to some types of classical music, and describing those would be useful, but the statement that they are "good for classical" is not very useful imho.

post #453 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti tunes View Post

I'm confused by this. Most of the headphones discussed on this forum ARE mass market brands. Companies such as Sony, AKG, etc have been around for quite some time and get frequent nods from the community.

I would argue that. The only company that makes headphones that are anything close to wildly popular with the general public that I see regularly praised is Sony. Yes they are mass market brands, but they still aren't mainstream. 

post #454 of 503

I think there's a world of difference between recomending something and redirecting to someone else's opinion. I would never recommend something I haven't heard, but I'll tell them to read someone else's opinion on it. Like if someone is looking for a neutral detailed closed pair of headphones I'll send them the link to the Paradox thread on Changstar. Would I tell them to buy it? No. I also would make it very clear that I haven't tried them. This way I'm not creating a second opinion giving the illusion of consensus regarding a product, I'm just a middleman to the actual valid opinions. If someone did this for me I'd be fine and thank them.

post #455 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti tunes View Post

I'm confused by this. Most of the headphones discussed on this forum ARE mass market brands. Companies such as Sony, AKG, etc have been around for quite some time and get frequent nods from the community.

Well, by that logic, vinyl recordings and indie bands are mainstream. But how many people do you see on the street talking about them? Very few people other than enthusiasts like us know about most of the brands discussed here.


Edited by BetaWolf - 3/19/13 at 12:07pm
post #456 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetaWolf View Post

I'm going to get trashed for this, I'm sure... but I think a lot of the hate towards the mass-market brands on this forum is us being part hipster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti tunes View Post

I'm confused by this. Most of the headphones discussed on this forum ARE mass market brands. Companies such as Sony, AKG, etc have been around for quite some time and get frequent nods from the community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkAwesome View Post

I would argue that. The only company that makes headphones that are anything close to wildly popular with the general public that I see regularly praised is Sony. Yes they are mass market brands, but they still aren't mainstream. 

 

Different terms with different definitions, there is "mass market" and "mainstream" and "wildly popular". I don't know how to distinguish clearly between these.

 

Here in the UK Sennheiser is an extremely well known brand for headphones and I think that this is the case throughout Europe. I think their brand image is one of delivering the goods sonically.

 

There are also brands now that focus on fashion more than quality of production for sales.

 

I think that BetaWolf makes a good point. There is a big tendency amongst those of us who place quality of reproduction first to be snobbish about those who buy for fashion reasons.

 

We forget that the audio industry is itself driven by fashion but it has a different nature from that of the clothing industry and unlike that of the clothing industry the consumers are in a denial about it.

 

Valve amplifiers ("tube" amplifiers in US) have become fashionable. People choose to overlook the disadvantages of them and concentrate on the advantages.

 

I remember when valve amplifiers were deeply unfashionable and that the idea that they were likely to reproduce music accurately would have been thought rather funny.

 

So here we see that fashion matters in audio the same as it does in the clothing industry.

 
 
post #457 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetaWolf View Post

Well, by that logic, vinyl recordings and indie bands are mainstream. But how many people do you see on the street talking about them? Very few people other than enthusiasts like us know about most of the brands discussed here.

When did I say any of that? You mentioned that the brands often discussed here are not usually noticed outside of people within the hobby. I was pointing out some examples that contradict that. I wasn't saying your were incorrect, just not accurate. I wouldn't say the community is hipsterish, I would simply say that much like any hobby we are hyper focused on the industry.

post #458 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetaWolf View Post

I'm going to get trashed for this, I'm sure... but I think a lot of the hate towards the mass-market brands on this forum is us being part hipster.

 

Heh.  I get your point and also agree to a certain extent.  It's just that when attending an HF meet (or any audio enthusiast meet), "hipster" is generally the last word that comes to mind.

post #459 of 503

That I don't get to see any headfiers in real life. 

post #460 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

That I don't get to see any headfiers in real life. 

 

 

Get thee to a meet.

post #461 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by p a t r i c k View Post

Different terms with different definitions, there is "mass market" and "mainstream" and "wildly popular". I don't know how to distinguish clearly between these.

 

 

They are impossible to define, cuz hipsters don't need such silly things as definitions. 

 

Taking a look at this: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-are-the-hottest-headphones-for-the-holidays-2012-11-29

 

I would call the brands in it as mainstream. They are, in order

Beats, Sony, Monster, Skull Candy, Bose, Sennheiser, House of Marley, Soul, Logic3

 

No AKG, no Denon, no Grado, not even AudioTechnica (mildly surprised because them M50's are rather popular)

 

Out of those, only Sony and Sennheiser get regular praise. Even then, the headphones mentioned (Sony X10, Sennheiser RS180) isn't the stuff that is most wildly popular within the HeadFi communitiy. 

 

Taking a look at this: http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-11-29/industries/35427092_1_headphone-market-x-headphones-high-end-headphones

 

Wildly popular for high end headphones is Beats, Sony, Bose, Monster, and Sennheiser. 

 

Maybe also relevant: Ignoring the regular-word-brands, Sony and Bose are recognized by my spellcheck dictionary, Sennheiser isn't

Quote:

Here in the UK Sennheiser is an extremely well known brand for headphones and I think that this is the case throughout Europe. I think their brand image is one of delivering the goods sonically.

 

I'm in the US most of the time. Sennheiser is a rare sight, maybe more common than AKG or Denon, but nowhere near even Sony much less Beats and Bose. 

 

Also, do note that the brand image of Monster, Beats, and Bose is one of delivering the goods sonically. I think Monster and Beats are starting to lose that distinction, but Bose is still going strong in the perception of sound quality department. 

Quote:
There are also brands now that focus on fashion more than quality of production for sales.

 

And they are getting sales. “traditional headphone brands struggle to regain shelf space lost to lifestyle branded headphones such a Skullcandy and Beats.” - one of the articles I linked

 

Thus some people have a "hipster" reaction of "we liked headphones before they were cool." 

Quote:

I think that BetaWolf makes a good point. There is a big tendency amongst those of us who place quality of reproduction first to be snobbish about those who buy for fashion reasons.

 

We forget that the audio industry is itself driven by fashion but it has a different nature from that of the clothing industry and unlike that of the clothing industry the consumers are in a denial about it.

 

Valve amplifiers ("tube" amplifiers in US) have become fashionable. People choose to overlook the disadvantages of them and concentrate on the advantages.

 

I remember when valve amplifiers were deeply unfashionable and that the idea that they were likely to reproduce music accurately would have been thought rather funny.

 

So here we see that fashion matters in audio the same as it does in the clothing industry.

Excellent point. I wouldn't call it fashion though (despite it technically meeting the dictionary definition of it), more like fads and positive hype feedback loops. 

post #462 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkAwesome View Post

...I'm in the US most of the time. Sennheiser is a rare sight, maybe more common than AKG or Denon, but nowhere near even Sony much less Beats and Bose...

Really? Sennheiser is pretty common in Canada. Very visible at FutureShop and BestBuy. I was even in a bargain-bin/liquidation electronics store yesterday and the shelves were full of Senns.
post #463 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by TubeStack View Post


Really? Sennheiser is pretty common in Canada. Very visible at FutureShop and BestBuy. I was even in a bargain-bin/liquidation electronics store yesterday and the shelves were full of Senns.

Talking irl seeing cans on people's heads. Maybe people just prefer using Sennheiser headphones at home, or I live in an area devoid of Sennheiser fans, or my luck is just weird, but out of headphones I see when walking around doing whatever I do every day (too lazy and shy to try and see what IEM's people are using), Sennheisers trail behind Beats, Beats knockoffs, Bose, Sony, and more recently AudioTechnica. 

post #464 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkAwesome View Post

Talking irl seeing cans on people's heads. Maybe people just prefer using Sennheiser headphones at home, or I live in an area devoid of Sennheiser fans, or my luck is just weird, but out of headphones I see when walking around doing whatever I do every day (too lazy and shy to try and see what IEM's people are using), Sennheisers trail behind Beats, Beats knockoffs, Bose, Sony, and more recently AudioTechnica. 

Ah, yes, totally see what you mean. I was thinking in-store. Yeah, all I ever see are Beats or Beats knockoffs outside.
post #465 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post
That I don't get to see any headfiers in real life. 

 

The Seattle-area meets are probably going to be the closest possible meets to your location. The next Seattle meet is on 5/4: http://www.head-fi.org/t/651381/quattro-de-mayo-seattle-meet-5-04-13-west-seattle-library

 

I looked up the distance between Spokane and Seattle and saw that it was ~5 hours, but I'd highly recommend that you attend if you can make the date. Even though I don't live anywhere close to Washington state (I'm in Colorado), I've been to 3 of the Seattle meets so far and they were all awesome events. The Seattle-area Head-Fiers are a really cool group of people - definitely one of my favorite regional groups of Head-Fiers so far, and I've been to meets all over the country!

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