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My #1 gripe with head-fi forum members - Page 24

post #346 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsup View Post


Yea I think a wiki type thing would be a great idea. At the very least, it would be more organized and easier to find information. Maybe someone should also make a flow chart of how to start finding the right headphones and make clickable paths to get to suggestions based on buyer answers to questions (money, bass, type of music, etc.)

 


Oh wow, it already exists... http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-buying-guide Could use a bit of work, but it's really comprehensive... Should probably be stickied...

 

post #347 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50an6xy06r6n View Post


Oh wow, it already exists... http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-buying-guide Could use a bit of work, but it's really comprehensive... Should probably be stickied...

 


Not once did I see that thread pop up when I was searching for the stuff I wanted confused_face_2.gif .

post #348 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsup View Post


Not once did I see that thread pop up when I was searching for the stuff I wanted confused_face_2.gif .



If you scroll to the bottom of any Head-Fi page, it's the first article.

post #349 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roller View Post



If you scroll to the bottom of any Head-Fi page, it's the first article.



 

Haha you're right. Under recent articles. Maybe mods should make it more noticeable and make it into a special wiki type so people can add things?

 

Nvm. Already wiki. I think people just never really noticed it cuz it was so small lol.


Edited by catsup - 3/13/12 at 12:06am
post #350 of 503

Sorry for double post, but I had a completely different idea I wanted to post.

 

When I was searching for headphones, I really wished that there was some way for me to compare the differences in headphones and hear the portions of sounds that I was missing through audio clips. I know there is no way to really demonstrate the full extent of what you would be experiencing from a headphone and several factors are involved, but is there a way to give people a sense of what we could get from different headphones? We see those graphs of the sound levels from headroom. Is there some way to use those graphs to create several versions of the same song utilizing different EQ based on those graphs to give the listener a sense of what the specific headphones would emphasize/ de-emphasize in terms of sound signature? I think this would be helpful to the layman.

post #351 of 503
^ What song would you choose? What genre? Anyway, it would be rather pointless without headphones at the listener's end that have a dead flat frequency response. Not feasible.
post #352 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post

^ What song would you choose? What genre? Anyway, it would be rather pointless without headphones at the listener's end that have a dead flat frequency response. Not feasible.


Whoever does it can choose what song/songs. And like I said, this is just one way to help the listener distinguish between headphones before buying. Just to get an idea of what the sound signature roughly could be using EQ. If the listener uses the same audio equipment as output (most audio equipment can output roughly the range of human hearing), then the listener can get a rough sense of what the sound signature of the headphones would be using the same equipment and song. I'm not sure whether it would actually help, but if someone has time and expertise, it might be a worth while project for fun. I don't think it would take that long to write a program to interpret the graphs and set up a custom EQ automatically to each graph.


Edited by catsup - 3/13/12 at 12:44am
post #353 of 503
1) What song would adequately showcase all frequencies? A classical piece wouldn't help a dubstep lover, and vice-versa.

2) You can't, for instance, simulate bass heavy headphones on bass light headphones. The latter playing a song with emphasized bass will sound nothing like the bass heavy headphones the song is trying to simulate. At best, in those conditions, it will simulate headphones that have neutral bass.

To make it clear, you'd need to account for the Frequency Response of not only the headphones you're trying to simulate, but also the FR of the headphones at the other end. EQ needs to account for both (you'd need one version of the song for each combination of headphones, which is not realistic), and there's only so much you can EQ without distortion anyway.
post #354 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post

1) What song would adequately showcase all frequencies? A classical piece wouldn't help a dubstep lover, and vice-versa.
2) You can't, for instance, simulate bass heavy headphones on bass light headphones. The latter playing a song with emphasized bass will sound nothing like the bass heavy headphones the song is trying to simulate. At best, in those conditions, it will simulate headphones that have neutral bass.
To make it clear, you'd need to account for the Frequency Response of not only the headphones you're trying to simulate, but also the FR of the headphones at the other end. EQ needs to account for both (you'd need one version of the song for each combination of headphones, which is not realistic), and there's only so much you can EQ without distortion anyway.


Okay, you're not understanding what I'm trying to say. So I will explain this again.

#1) I am not saying I know or care about which song it is. It could be multiple songs in several genres if it makes u happy.

#2) I also know that there are many factors in how headphones sound. If headphones A is the one you are trying to get, and you are using headphone B which cannot produce the same frequencies as headphones A, then ofcourse headphone B cannot physically simulate the same frequencies as headphone A.


The point you are missing is that I am using this as a way of comparison. If I keep all the audio output equipment and media constant, and the only thing I am changing is the EQ of the same song which adjusts the volume levels of different frequencies, then I can compare the simulated sound signatures of many headphones.

 

This does not mean that I am tying to realistically simulate headphone A on headphone B, rather I am trying compare simulated sound signatures of different headphones. If I could simulate sound headphone A off of headphone B, I would not need to buy headphone A period. I am not trying to compare headphone A to headphone B. I am trying to compare headphone A, C, D, etc using headphone B. And like I said, rough estimate of differences in sound signature during comparison.

 

Again this is for comparison sake using the same everything except for simulated sound signature (emphasis/de-emphasis) using EQ.

 

Hopefully you understand this time.


Edited by catsup - 3/13/12 at 1:11am
post #355 of 503

Relax catsup, it's not a bad idea but a pretty impossible one. I think in the end people would rather read opinions.

 

There's also a problem with your idea: if someone is using Apple iBuds, which is very likely, they don't have a sub-bass response. The amount of EQ necessary to give it something close to "bass" is ridiculous, otherwise you could make it go +9dB all you want because those headphones simply don't play sub-100Hz frequencies. Another problem comes from the fact this only compares frequency responses. There are thing like soundstage which would require crossfeed to be displayed, detail which is simply impossible to simulate.

 

Sorry for bringing it down, but I don't think it's possible or effective. I also don't think threatning to ban people would help this very much. People should get banned because you get sad from watching repeated threads? Start visiting the advice thread frequently, when a user posts a new thread tell them to post there. Eventually this will catch up.

post #356 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsup View Post

This does not mean that I am tying to realistically simulate headphone A on headphone B, rather I am trying compare simulated sound signatures of different headphones. If I could simulate sound headphone A off of headphone B, I would not need to buy headphone A period. I am not trying to compare headphone A to headphone B. I am trying to compare headphone A, C, D, etc using headphone B. And like I said, rough estimate of differences in sound signature during comparison.

Then you're not simulating anything at all. Why would I make a decision based on a "simulated" sound that is nothing like the actual headphones? When I buy the headphones, they will sound different from what I heard. Like, the bass heavy headphones will have much stronger bass than what I heard through my bass light headphones, and I'll go "WTF BASS EEEW".

Sorry, but it's stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsup View Post

Hopefully you understand this time.
I was thinking the same thing rolleyes.gif
post #357 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post


Then you're not simulating anything at all. Why would I make a decision based on a "simulated" sound that is nothing like the actual headphones? When I buy the headphones, they will sound different from what I heard. Like, the bass heavy headphones will have much stronger bass than what I heard through my bass light headphones, and I'll go "WTF BASS EEEW".
Sorry, but it's stupid.
I was thinking the same thing rolleyes.gif


Ok. Listen, I really can't convince you of anything if you made up your mind already.

#1) I never said to decided which headphone to buy based on just this comparison.

#2) I never said that the sound would be even be simulated accurately.

#3) What I did say was that this was supposed to be a rough comparison to simulate sound signatures of different cans using EQ. For example: if I am using this method to compare two headphones that I potentially want to buy, and I play a song using headphone A simulated sound versus headphone B simulated sound; if I am a basshead and I hear louder bass in headphone A versus headphone B simulations, then I would look more into headphone A.

#4) Ofcourse buying headphones is not as simple as this, but at the very least it will give the layman a simple way to understand rough differences in sound signature of different headphones.

 

If you cannot understand this, then I cannot help you. I have no interest in trying to persuade you either. I'm just putting this out there for people to think about. I do not have the expertise with programming or wte to make EQs based on graphs to simulate headphone signatures but maybe someone who agrees with me and does have an interest in this could do this for fun; if it works decently, it might be a beneficial tool for everyone.

 

Also, please don't reply about this again. I have tried to explain several times and cannot explain it further to you; if you hate it then fine, it's your opinion and you can think wte you would like. I'm not going to reply to any further posts by you. If you hate the idea, then just ignore it.


Edited by catsup - 3/13/12 at 1:55am
post #358 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsup View Post



Okay, you're not understanding what I'm trying to say. So I will explain this again.

#1) I am not saying I know or care about which song it is. It could be multiple songs in several genres if it makes u happy.

#2) I also know that there are many factors in how headphones sound. If headphones A is the one you are trying to get, and you are using headphone B which cannot produce the same frequencies as headphones A, then ofcourse headphone B cannot physically simulate the same frequencies as headphone A.


The point you are missing is that I am using this as a way of comparison. If I keep all the audio output equipment and media constant, and the only thing I am changing is the EQ of the same song which adjusts the volume levels of different frequencies, then I can compare the simulated sound signatures of many headphones.

 

This does not mean that I am tying to realistically simulate headphone A on headphone B, rather I am trying compare simulated sound signatures of different headphones. If I could simulate sound headphone A off of headphone B, I would not need to buy headphone A period. I am not trying to compare headphone A to headphone B. I am trying to compare headphone A, C, D, etc using headphone B. And like I said, rough estimate of differences in sound signature during comparison.

 

Again this is for comparison sake using the same everything except for simulated sound signature (emphasis/de-emphasis) using EQ.

 

Hopefully you understand this time.


I think that's a dangerous idea. IMO People who try to use your eq'ing implementation and buy a headphone based off that, who ultimately end up not liking the headphone,

would probably end up blaming Head-Fi for some reason or another.

 

How could this be possible with audio being subjective and soo many different setups down the chain? I understand you're not pitting phone A vs phone B but using 1 to "simulate" sounds of B,C D, etc. Aren't there still too many variables to get an honest representation?

 

post #359 of 503
So you're not simulating anything at all. You're essentially thinking of providing an aural means of comparing FR differences. Sorry, but reading a chart (especially with superimposed FR curbs) is much faster and more accurate.
post #360 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post


I think that's a dangerous idea. IMO People who try to use your eq'ing implementation and buy a headphone based off that, who ultimately end up not liking the headphone,

would probably end up blaming Head-Fi for some reason or another.

 

How could this be possible with audio being subjective and soo many different setups down the chain? I understand you're not pitting phone A vs phone B but using 1 to "simulate" sounds of B,C D, etc. Aren't there still too many variables to get an honest representation?

 



Please read previous post right before yours. I think it answers some of your questions.

 

Again, this is supposed to be a rough estimation and comparison. Not supposed to simulate exactly what the headphones would sound like. Rather think of it as a way of directing your attention to what you may like based on sound signature. You could explore further into the possibilities in real life by yourself.

 

I.e. I mean this as a tool to help narrow down the possible headphones you may like and then for you to actually go out and try them in real life before buying. Again, it's just another tool for rough comparison. In my opinion, better than reading charts and what others think without reference. This would give you a basic reference point because everything else except the EQ simulation would stay the same. Also seeing just a graph does not necessarily help you understand what it means for your music. Just because I can see something can produce good bass does not mean that it will be good for my hip hop or trance music. If there was a way to test it out on my songs or hear how similar songs would sound approximately using that sound signature, I think it would be a useful tool.

 

I've tried to explain this idea as best as I could. If you guys like, hate, or think it's impossible, it is all fine to me. I am just putting it out there. If someone wants to actually try to implement it, that would be great too. I'm going not trying to defend or advocate for this idea any further so you won't be receiving any replies to any more responses regarding this. I wrote down everything I had to say already about this idea. Whether you believe it might be a potential good tool or not is your choice. Thanks guys for the responses.


Edited by catsup - 3/13/12 at 2:38am
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