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Amping for AKG Q701 - Page 6

post #76 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


Yes, the Asgard is a suitable amp and will drive them properly.


Have you tried this combination? I have and the Asgard and the AKG K601/K702 is a very bad combo I'm sorry to say.

Someone once told me the K702 was not that good for the Asgard and they had upgraded to the M-Stage and I wanted to believe this wasn't true.

When I switched to even the E9 I was shocked at how much more I liked the K702. Sounds bad doesn't it? I guess it's all about synergy because I loved the Asgard for the D2000, HD-600 and many other headphones.

It seems to hate all the AKG headphones i've tried with it. It also disliked the ATH-AD2000 for some reason.

 

If your source is weak, you'll need to crank the Asgard very high. I think the AKG K601 plus the Asgard is the worst pairing I've ever heard.

 

I'd actually suggest the E9 over the Asgard for the K702 (!!)

post #77 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


Yes, the Asgard is a suitable amp and will drive them properly.


Appeciate it Magick Man!

post #78 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post



Have you tried this combination? I have and the Asgard and the AKG K601/K702 is a very bad combo I'm sorry to say.

Someone once told me the K702 was not that good for the Asgard and they had upgraded to the M-Stage and I wanted to believe this wasn't true.

When I switched to even the E9 I was shocked at how much more I liked the K702. Sounds bad doesn't it? I guess it's all about synergy because I loved the Asgard for the D2000, HD-600 and many other headphones.

It seems to hate all the AKG headphones i've tried with it. It also disliked the ATH-AD2000 for some reason.

 

If your source is weak, you'll need to crank the Asgard very high. I think the AKG K601 plus the Asgard is the worst pairing I've ever heard.

 

I'd actually suggest the E9 over the Asgard for the K702 (!!)

What was your source when pairing the Asgard with the K702's and can you please elaborate a little when you say you didn't like the combo. I'd get a better understanding if you could briefly explain what didn't you like about that paring compared to the E9
 

 

post #79 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFiguy View Post

What was your source when pairing the Asgard with the K702's and can you please elaborate a little when you say you didn't like the combo. I'd get a better understanding if you could briefly explain what didn't you like about that paring compared to the E9
 

 



You could try it out since Schiit gives you a 15 day trial. I thought I read somewhere that they supposedly made it sound better for the AKG headphones. Doubt it, but it's possible.

This was a long time ago. Maybe 2010? Based on memory it made the mids on my K702 sound almost recessed and very distant sounding. More so than usual. It's as if all the background details in the music had went missing. Things that should normally be there. It could be due to the massive soundstage I heard from the Asgard with the K702. Gaming on the K702 with the Asgard was not good.

 

At the time I was probably using an Oppo 971 or some other source. Had a PC DAC at the time but never used it much. I remember once using a docked Ipod Touch 2G (line out)  for a week for testing and clearly remember having to crank the volume to around 90% with just the K601. I guess this would make sense? I don't use a docked Ipod though. Haha, this should be obvious, but the Asgard CAN'T drive a 600 ohm headphone biggrin.gif Not that anyone would expect it to! Yeah..I tried once, not fun. What's funny is that the E9 kind of makes the Asgard look like a weakling, but the E9 is for all those harder to drive headphones..despite what people say..

 

The K601 on the Asgard was extremely ear piercing. Kind of like it had this strange lower treble peak somewhere. More so than normal. Even the ATH-AD2000 was very fatiguing on the Asgard and not due to it's normal signature.

 

I would be surprised if anyone on here is using the AKGs with an Asgard and loves it.

 

When I got my E9 it's as if those mids came back and everything actually felt a lot better. Soundstage was actually still large, but all that detail had come back. I remember playing through Crysis 2 with the K702 + E9 without many complaints. Someone once said the Asgard had recessed mids, but I don't know. Doubt it. Could be possible.

 

I remember one day doing a stupid test with my E9, Total Airhead and Asgard. With the HD-650 I actually felt the HD-650 sounded best from the Airhead(!). That's why I ended up with the Headroom Micro Amp. Much better than the Asgard, but plays well with both the Sennheiser and AKG stuff. I think I gave the Micro Amp a week and then sold my Asgard. It IS pretty amazing for the HD-600/D2000, but not so much the HD-650. Someday I'll get the M-Stage and compare it to my Micro Amp. Should sound similar maybe. BTW I also remember the E9 being much clearer sounding than the Asgard. Not sure how or why. Maybe the E9 is more neutral?

 

Not very good impressions, but I'm sure someone can dig up my old comments about the K702 + Asgard. I've posted about it probably dozens of times.

 

 

 


Edited by tdockweiler - 3/13/12 at 6:39pm
post #80 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post



Have you tried this combination? I have and the Asgard and the AKG K601/K702 is a very bad combo I'm sorry to say.
Someone once told me the K702 was not that good for the Asgard and they had upgraded to the M-Stage and I wanted to believe this wasn't true.
When I switched to even the E9 I was shocked at how much more I liked the K702. Sounds bad doesn't it? I guess it's all about synergy because I loved the Asgard for the D2000, HD-600 and many other headphones.
It seems to hate all the AKG headphones i've tried with it. It also disliked the ATH-AD2000 for some reason.

If your source is weak, you'll need to crank the Asgard very high. I think the AKG K601 plus the Asgard is the worst pairing I've ever heard.

I'd actually suggest the E9 over the Asgard for the K702 (!!)

It's a well made SS amp with much better components than the E9, from a respected and reliable US company. Not sure what happened, maybe the one you heard was defective? The "all about synergy" comment doesn't really make a lot of sense, I've heard it from other members on this forum before but no one seems to be able to tell me in electrical terms what that means.

Yes, I own the E9 and own some Q701s. The E9 is of questionable quality, from my experience. I've returned two and finally gave up with the third one and just set it up at my wife's desk, she doesn't care if there's a slight hiss.
post #81 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


It's a well made SS amp with much better components than the E9, from a respected and reliable US company. Not sure what happened, maybe the one you heard was defective? The "all about synergy" comment doesn't really make a lot of sense, I've heard it from other members on this forum before but no one seems to be able to tell me in electrical terms what that means.
Yes, I own the E9 and own some Q701s. The E9 is of questionable quality, from my experience. I've returned two and finally gave up with the third one and just set it up at my wife's desk, she doesn't care if there's a slight hiss.


I think the problem is that MAYBE it just doesn't have the power to drive the K702 very well. People can say that technically it "should", but that doesn't mean much to me.

It seems that the Asgard just plays well with Sennheiser stuff and less so with the AKG headphones. Just because the E9 sounds better with the K702 doesn't mean it's a better amp than the Asgard. Just better "synergy" with the 702.

I picked the Asgard originally because it was made in the USA and was known to sound good with the HD-600 I had at the time. I think that's the best thing to do, find an amp that's known to sound good with the headphone you're buying.

Better yet, find one that seems to drive everything well. Based on my experience, this isn't as common as it should be! To make things worse, when I had the K702 and HD-600 I preferred the Asgard for the HD-600 over the E9. For my HD-650, I liked the E9(!).

 

 

I mean I think there is a reason why Schiit sells other amps that match up better for the K702.

I kind of view the Asgard as being for the easier to drive headphones, which the AKG is not. It always sounds better when you connect it a more powerful amp. It's not an issue of it coloring the sound.

 

I'm not a fan of the Asgard at all. I think it's a bit over-rated and only good with specific headphones. It's best for one to just test it with specific headphones and see how it sounds for them.

I think there's a reason almost nobody here suggests the Asgard for the AKG stuff. I'll give Schiit another chance with the Lyr sometime.

post #82 of 400


For some reason this quote didn't grab your text - curious! Anyways, no, a "decent amp" should not be cutting or boosting frequencies without telling you about it; that's called EQ. There may be an impedance mismatch causing an FR shift, but you'd need some measurements to confirm to deny this. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

 



 


You're applying some unrelated concepts and judgments to what I've said. First let's dump the word "placebo" - it has no place here (it's a gross over-generalization of what's going on, and isn't accurate; it's a medical thing). Second, let's not apply the value judgment associated with "deluded." Now, what I *am* saying is that we are NOT as accurate measures of reality as we'd like to think. We see and we hear what we want to see and hear, this does not have to reflect reality at all. It doesn't matter who you are, how rich you are, how smart you are, whatever; you still have a human brain and are still subject to it's flaws and curiosities. Everyone is. Expectation and cognitive biases are understood to be able to contribute to these kinds of belief, and memory is not as accurate as we'd hope it to be (in other words, you can't say that your memory of an event actually reflects what happened; it likely does not - it reflects your emotional and psychological state at the time of the event - that's highly biased). 

 

There's no need to get defensive about this; it's simply a part of being human. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


You're saying that tube rollers are deluded? I've heard a difference, is that placebo?


 

Here I would have to disagree. Aside from this amplifier having one of the most unfortunate names of all time, I don't think it really has anything "special" about it. Just because it's got "USA" stamped on it doesn't mean anything (aside from bringing in a whole slew of cognitive biases associated with COO preference, which usually boils down to racism (I said usually) - now that IS something to be ashamed of). The Fiio E9 is very similar to the CI VHP internally; they use the same TI chip. The difference is that the E9 goes a few steps further, and has a proper sealed pot, and protection relays (!!!); things that should be standard across the board, but aren't. Instead, we get fancy aluminum enclosures (which cost a few dollars at most), and claims of "American superiority" to move a highly marked-up product. I would almost expect the Schiit to carry a higher mark-up than the Fiio or most other Chinese products; they push it too hard for it to be any other way. Finally, you cannot assess the "sound quality" in a sighted, non-A/B, and non-levelmatched manner; it's not objective or scientific in the least (you're changing about a dozen variables and not even starting to address bias - you aren't testing anything and your "conclusions" don't mean anything). 

 

Again, there's no need to get defensive about this - we're all subject to the limitations of our circumstance. And just because "a lot of people" disagree does not make them right - that's another cognitive bias. A great example of this in action is the "synergy" point - the reason you aren't getting a straight-faced explanation in any meaningful terms is because it probably doesn't exist; if you ask for defense of a claim and are provided a lot of hand-waving or mushy emotional dribble, shouldn't that completely deflate the claim as mere prose? 

 

As far as why these products are more popular - that's fairly simple: they cost a lot more. So of course they have to be better! (At least, that's what we're trained to believe in a culture of consumption (and I'm not making this as a political statement, this term has specific and non-political meaning within the social sciences)). This has been documented and understood for at least a century. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


It's a well made SS amp with much better components than the E9, from a respected and reliable US company. Not sure what happened, maybe the one you heard was defective? The "all about synergy" comment doesn't really make a lot of sense, I've heard it from other members on this forum before but no one seems to be able to tell me in electrical terms what that means.
Yes, I own the E9 and own some Q701s. The E9 is of questionable quality, from my experience. I've returned two and finally gave up with the third one and just set it up at my wife's desk, she doesn't care if there's a slight hiss.


 

post #83 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


You're applying some unrelated concepts and judgments to what I've said. First let's dump the word "placebo" - it has no place here (it's a gross over-generalization of what's going on, and isn't accurate; it's a medical thing). Second, let's not apply the value judgment associated with "deluded." Now, what I *am* saying is that we are NOT as accurate measures of reality as we'd like to think. We see and we hear what we want to see and hear, this does not have to reflect reality at all. It doesn't matter who you are, how rich you are, how smart you are, whatever; you still have a human brain and are still subject to it's flaws and curiosities. Everyone is. Expectation and cognitive biases are understood to be able to contribute to these kinds of belief, and memory is not as accurate as we'd hope it to be (in other words, you can't say that your memory of an event actually reflects what happened; it likely does not - it reflects your emotional and psychological state at the time of the event - that's highly biased). 

There's no need to get defensive about this; it's simply a part of being human. 
Ugh, your passive-aggressive personality is a little off-putting, especially when compounded with deliberate condescension. Oh well, so be it. rolleyes.gif

Tube effects can be easily be heard in tests, some say second-order harmonic distortion tends to be pleasing to the ears, at least that's one of the theories scientists and engineers have put forth. It's an actual phenomenon, not pure cognitive bias. You can be a skeptic, but there's no reason to be stubborn. Predisposition towards believing that there can be no measurable effect is also a type bias.
Quote:
Here I would have to disagree. Aside from this amplifier having one of the most unfortunate names of all time, I don't think it really has anything "special" about it. Just because it's got "USA" stamped on it doesn't mean anything (aside from bringing in a whole slew of cognitive biases associated with COO preference, which usually boils down to racism (I said usually) - now that IS something to be ashamed of). The Fiio E9 is very similar to the CI VHP internally; they use the same TI chip. The difference is that the E9 goes a few steps further, and has a proper sealed pot, and protection relays (!!!); things that should be standard across the board, but aren't. Instead, we get fancy aluminum enclosures (which cost a few dollars at most), and claims of "American superiority" to move a highly marked-up product. I would almost expect the Schiit to carry a higher mark-up than the Fiio or most other Chinese products; they push it too hard for it to be any other way. Finally, you cannot assess the "sound quality" in a sighted, non-A/B, and non-levelmatched manner; it's not objective or scientific in the least (you're changing about a dozen variables and not even starting to address bias - you aren't testing anything and your "conclusions" don't mean anything). 

Again, there's no need to get defensive about this - we're all subject to the limitations of our circumstance. And just because "a lot of people" disagree does not make them right - that's another cognitive bias. A great example of this in action is the "synergy" point - the reason you aren't getting a straight-faced explanation in any meaningful terms is because it probably doesn't exist; if you ask for defense of a claim and are provided a lot of hand-waving or mushy emotional dribble, shouldn't that completely deflate the claim as mere prose? 

As far as why these products are more popular - that's fairly simple: they cost a lot more. So of course they have to be better! (At least, that's what we're trained to believe in a culture of consumption (and I'm not making this as a political statement, this term has specific and non-political meaning within the social sciences)). This has been documented and understood for at least a century. 
My comments about the Asgard being USA made was an endorsement to purchase it for economic reasons, purchasing products made in America helps to employ people in this country. The OP is from New York, perhaps that means something to him.

The Asgard has better fit and finish, it's properly rated for the Q701 (FiiO purposely avoids posting certain specs for the E9), and it looks slick. Also, I can assess sound quality when my third E9 has an audible hiss, but I guess that's better than the first I had, which died abruptly after a month, or the second which had a defective E7 dock. No, from experience I'm not impressed with FiiO.

FYI, as I implied before, your tone makes people more defensive. Perhaps you aren't aware of that.
Edited by Magick Man - 3/14/12 at 5:33am
post #84 of 400

All I can say is that I love my Q701's with my E9, I use the set up for music and gaming. I have owned the K701's & 702, and they do sound different. The Q's are slightly warmer with a touch more bass.

post #85 of 400

I pesonally feel that the E9 is the best bang for the buck on the market. It also does very well with all the Beyers that I own.

post #86 of 400

Which beyers do you own and used with the E9? When I had my Fiio E9, I didn't like my DT880 pro-250's thru it unless I changed out the default op-amps to a different op-amp I had in my collection. But I can use it with the Matrix M-Stage as it a better match with that amp then it is the e9.

post #87 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

FiiO purposely avoids posting certain specs for the E9


You may already have seen it, but the E9 has an extensive technical review here. It does confirm that the main weak points are noise, low impedance headphones, and channel balance at low volume settings. There is unfortunately no such review for the Asgard (or the large majority of audiophile products, for that matter).

 

post #88 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


For some reason this quote didn't grab your text - curious! Anyways, no, a "decent amp" should not be cutting or boosting frequencies without telling you about it; that's called EQ. There may be an impedance mismatch causing an FR shift, but you'd need some measurements to confirm to deny this. 

 



 


You're applying some unrelated concepts and judgments to what I've said. First let's dump the word "placebo" - it has no place here (it's a gross over-generalization of what's going on, and isn't accurate; it's a medical thing). Second, let's not apply the value judgment associated with "deluded." Now, what I *am* saying is that we are NOT as accurate measures of reality as we'd like to think. We see and we hear what we want to see and hear, this does not have to reflect reality at all. It doesn't matter who you are, how rich you are, how smart you are, whatever; you still have a human brain and are still subject to it's flaws and curiosities. Everyone is. Expectation and cognitive biases are understood to be able to contribute to these kinds of belief, and memory is not as accurate as we'd hope it to be (in other words, you can't say that your memory of an event actually reflects what happened; it likely does not - it reflects your emotional and psychological state at the time of the event - that's highly biased). 

 

There's no need to get defensive about this; it's simply a part of being human. 

 

 



 

Here I would have to disagree. Aside from this amplifier having one of the most unfortunate names of all time, I don't think it really has anything "special" about it. Just because it's got "USA" stamped on it doesn't mean anything (aside from bringing in a whole slew of cognitive biases associated with COO preference, which usually boils down to racism (I said usually) - now that IS something to be ashamed of). The Fiio E9 is very similar to the CI VHP internally; they use the same TI chip. The difference is that the E9 goes a few steps further, and has a proper sealed pot, and protection relays (!!!); things that should be standard across the board, but aren't. Instead, we get fancy aluminum enclosures (which cost a few dollars at most), and claims of "American superiority" to move a highly marked-up product. I would almost expect the Schiit to carry a higher mark-up than the Fiio or most other Chinese products; they push it too hard for it to be any other way. Finally, you cannot assess the "sound quality" in a sighted, non-A/B, and non-levelmatched manner; it's not objective or scientific in the least (you're changing about a dozen variables and not even starting to address bias - you aren't testing anything and your "conclusions" don't mean anything). 

 

Again, there's no need to get defensive about this - we're all subject to the limitations of our circumstance. And just because "a lot of people" disagree does not make them right - that's another cognitive bias. A great example of this in action is the "synergy" point - the reason you aren't getting a straight-faced explanation in any meaningful terms is because it probably doesn't exist; if you ask for defense of a claim and are provided a lot of hand-waving or mushy emotional dribble, shouldn't that completely deflate the claim as mere prose? 

 

As far as why these products are more popular - that's fairly simple: they cost a lot more. So of course they have to be better! (At least, that's what we're trained to believe in a culture of consumption (and I'm not making this as a political statement, this term has specific and non-political meaning within the social sciences)). This has been documented and understood for at least a century. 
 



 

I really like the fact that you come from a total unbiased point of view, and I agree with most subjects you happened to mention, the others were somewhat  incomprehensible to me because as a Medical Student I don't really understand all that engineering stuff wink.gif.

I'd like to know what would you personally suggest (preferably naming a few contenders) as a "suited" full-sized amp for the 70x's. I was planning on going for the Asgard but i'm a bit confused now from the aforementioned statements. 

Or will the Asgard do the job just fine?
 

post #89 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFiguy View Post

Or will the Asgard do the job just fine?
 



Yes. 

 

Asgard, m-stage (or any of the Lehman Black cube Linear clones), dynalo clones, O2 - all these will work just great. I do not recommend the E9 only because of the output impedance issue (not a problem with higher impedance cans, but the K/Q/70X phones put it in a potentially problematic range - especially noticeable in the bass, the pairing was very muddy sounding). 


Edited by liamstrain - 3/14/12 at 9:44am
post #90 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post



You may already have seen it, but the E9 has an extensive technical review here. It does confirm that the main weak points are noise, low impedance headphones, and channel balance at low volume settings. There is unfortunately no such review for the Asgard (or the large majority of audiophile products, for that matter).

That laregely has to do with them being very small companies who haven't paid to have those tests officially performed. To be honest, they should. If they're going to compete, they need to fully disclose that information.

That said, for $250 the Asgard is a very good value for an attractive, quality amp of its caliber.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFiguy View Post

I really like the fact that you come from a total unbiased point of view, and I agree with most subjects you happened to mention, the others were somewhat  incomprehensible to me because as a Medical Student I don't really understand all that engineering stuff wink.gif .


I'd like to know what would you personally suggest (preferably naming a few contenders) as a "suited" full-sized amp for the 70x's. I was planning on going for the Asgard but i'm a bit confused now from the aforementioned statements. 


Or will the Asgard do the job just fine?
Actually, he IS biased, just in the other direction. wink.gif
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