Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › <Renewed at 2012/03/12>The new HiFiMAN 802 & New UI named "Tai-Chi"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

<Renewed at 2012/03/12>The new HiFiMAN 802 & New UI named "Tai-Chi" - Page 45

post #661 of 733

Yes, but I it hasn't as huge effect on the frequency response and bass quality as I expected. It doesn't sound off by much. That's why I thought it would just be a little more than 1 Ohm, not a two figure impedance and certainly not more than 30 Ohm. The reason for this could of course be that the HM-801 already has a rolled off treble, which is then pushed up by the high output impedance. Now I am going to swap the GAME card to the Balanced again. I started listening to it with that on, and then put in the GAME card later because the Bal. card drinks more battery juice.

 

Anyway - I am certainly not going to buy the HM-901 if the output impedance isn't close to or less than 1 Ohm ...

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #662 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

Yes, but I it hasn't as huge effect on the frequency response and bass quality as I expected. It doesn't sound off by much. That's why I thought it would just be a little more than 1 Ohm, not a two figure impedance and certainly not more than 30 Ohm. The reason for this could of course be that the HM-801 already has a rolled off treble, which is then pushed up by the high output impedance. Now I am going to swap the GAME card to the Balanced again. I started listening to it with that on, and then put in the GAME card later because the Bal. card drinks more battery juice.

 

Anyway - I am certainly not going to buy the HM-901 if the output impedance isn't close to or less than 1 Ohm ...

 

Well the thing with the output impedance is that it will greatly vary from IEM to IEM or headphone to headphone. Pretty much you are rolling the dice and hopefully the coloration it adds will suite you lol. The effects can be rolled off bass, bloated bass, treble spikes, etc. I just don't see any excuses for these types of design flaws lol. I mean if it really didn't do anything to the sound then I wouldn't care but I've heard it for myself and it's not pretty :P. Thank goodness my DX100 has super low output impedance. Generally speaking the only thing I don't really nitpick on when it comes to the output impedance is a DAC but I'll be using an amp with very low output impedance to attenuate it anyways :).


Edited by lee730 - 12/6/12 at 3:16am
post #663 of 733

What the GAME module is aiming to fix is the overly high gain on the original Standard amp module (there are three version of standard module, I have the 2nd) while at the same time provide more current output. Both of these help to lower the hiss issue on the original standard amp module and also gives better control / less noise.

 

Remember that high output impedance alone doesn't mean impedance interaction or coloration - you also need a low impedance IEM with non-linear impedance phase. Takes TDK BA200 for an example, it is engineered so that even though it is dual driver and doesn't have high impedance, the impedance phase is still linear across the whole FR and thus high or low output impedance makes little to no impact on its sound. Another point is that, when HM801 was released, we had something like 10 pairs or less of multi-drivers universal IEM and even less CIEM. They are not the main target for HM801, which is designed to drive full size when away from home. Obviously the market and the user have changed since then and makes HM801 less adequate for the current world, but it doesn't void its original design goal. You just need to put it into context.


Edited by ClieOS - 12/6/12 at 4:42am
post #664 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

Wow that is horrible.... I thought the game amp was suppose to fix the output impedance issues. They actually made it worse?
 

 

When I first asked in that thread they said that it was 32 ohm, when I pointed out that was terrible, then they said less than 1 ohm. I will be interested to hear the response to this now.

post #665 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

What the GAME module is aiming to fix is the overly high gain on the original Standard amp module (there are three version of standard module, I have the 2nd) while at the same time provide more current output. Both of these help to lower the hiss issue on the original standard amp module and also gives better control / less noise.

 

Remember that high output impedance alone doesn't mean impedance interaction or coloration - you also need a low impedance IEM with non-linear impedance phase. Takes TDK BA200 for an example, it is engineered so that even though it is dual driver and doesn't have high impedance, the impedance phase is still linear across the whole FR and thus high or low output impedance makes little to no impact on its sound. Another point is that, when HM801 was released, we had something like 10 pairs or less of multi-drivers universal IEM and even less CIEM. They are not the main target for HM801, which is designed to drive full size when away from home. Obviously the market and the user have changed since then and makes HM801 less adequate for the current world, but it doesn't void its original design goal. You just need to put it into context.

 

I respect that you're a big Hifiman homer, and I have nothing against homers in general, but come on. You can't defend marketing an amp with 32 ohm output impedance to be used with IEMs.

post #666 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post

 

I respect that you're a big Hifiman homer, and I have nothing against homers in general, but come on. You can't defend marketing an amp with 32 ohm output impedance to be used with IEMs.


Yeah, whatever.

post #667 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post


Yeah, whatever.

 

Don't get cranky. Say what you want about the market when it was introduced, I wasn't around back then so I won't comment on it, but they are still marketing it as such in today's market. They haven't changed anything in their marketing. And it just isn't well designed, if that is indeed its output impedance, for today's IEMs. Try measuring FR on Hifiman's own iems with the game module, and see how it looks.

post #668 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

 

 

Bizarre that you hear the Miracle as V-shaped. You're the only person I've encountered who hears the Miracle that way. I hear it slightly upper-mid-forward (DX100 as source).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

|joker| also hears it that way IIRC, and he also has the HM-801. Read his review of it in the big review thread. Bass is certainly more prominent in the Miracle than even my LCD-2 - and that's from the same amp: Burson Soloist.

 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/541494/multi-custom-iem-review-resource-mfg-list-discussion-23-reviews-hidition-nt-6-pro-added-9-13-12/2040#post_8734616

 

 

 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Anyway, this thread has spiraled well out of control following my simple remark (above) about subjective FR of UM's Miracle. I never expected this threads huge detour with DAP graphs etc.

 

I can very simply state that my perception of the UM Miracle having a slight lift in the upper midrange is not isolated to it's use with the DX100. I experience the same character with my Sony D-777 discman, too (please note that, unlike the Cowon J3, the D-777 does drive the Miracle respectably, albeit not to a stellar degree).

 

It may be differences in ear canal shape, but I certainly don't hear all CIEMs to have a slight upper midband lift, so I'm not convinced of that being the reason for my perception of the Miracles FR.

 

No matter.

 

 

When, oh when are we ever going to hear some concrete news on the 901..??  WHEN?!  blink.gif


Edited by Mython - 12/6/12 at 8:01am
post #669 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post

 

Don't get cranky....

 

Cranky? I haven't got cranky yet, but I am tired of being labelled with such things as 'homer' or 'biased'. It is too easy just to label - since we can do that, what is the point of a discussion anyway? Anyone else who has a question for me, I am happy to answer over PM or email.

 

Found this in Russian: http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/usiliteli/hifiman-hm-801-gamecard-opa627/index.php

Rather interesting software he has there.


Edited by ClieOS - 12/6/12 at 8:15am
post #670 of 733
oops

Edited by goodvibes - 12/6/12 at 8:54am
post #671 of 733
Okay, so this Russian site measures the GAME cards output impedance to 21,3 Ohm, which is much better than the Japanese measurement (33,7), but still much too high for low impedance multi BA IEMs like the Miracle.

As you said, the market has changed since the HM-801 came out, but HiFiMan hasn't come up with a new amp card that meets the demand of many of the current CIEMs. This could easily be fixed by releasing a new amp card for the HM-801. The question remains then: Since the 801 is being continued - will HiFiMan back up it's old TOTL with such a new amp card?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

Cranky? I haven't got cranky yet, but I am tired of being labelled with such things as 'homer' or 'biased'. It is too easy just to label - since we can do that, what is the point of a discussion anyway? Anyone else who has a question for me, I am happy to answer over PM or email.

Found this in Russian: http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/usiliteli/hifiman-hm-801-gamecard-opa627/index.php
Rather interesting software he has there.
post #672 of 733

AFAIK, HM801 has been discontinued for over 6 months now because Hifiman can't source some of the main parts anymore - so no, I don't think you will get any amp module for HM801 for the future. They are switching their focus to HM901, which I think will use a smaller amp module design so it won't work with HM801.

post #673 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

AFAIK, HM801 has been discontinued for over 6 months now because Hifiman can't source some of the main parts anymore - so no, I don't think you will get any amp module for HM801 for the future. They are switching their focus to HM901, which I think will use a smaller amp module design so it won't work with HM801.

 

Their customer support said that it's not going anywhere over in the Sponsor/Announcements thread.

post #674 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post

 

Their customer support said that it's not going anywhere over in the Sponsor/Announcements thread.

 

http://www.erji.net/read.php?tid=1221730&keyword=

post #675 of 733

801 was back to the market like 3 months ago right? It can still be purchased on head direct.  It's discontinued again?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Portable Source Gear

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › <Renewed at 2012/03/12>The new HiFiMAN 802 & New UI named "Tai-Chi"