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<Renewed at 2012/03/12>The new HiFiMAN 802 & New UI named "Tai-Chi" - Page 28

post #406 of 733

I'll give them some credit as well. I did order from headirect I think when my unit arrived defective (DOA). The right channel had no audio. They were out of stock at that point so I waited about a week and then my replacement unit was shipped out. I returned my defective unit in the included return packaging via UPS. So I think the Customer service was good based on that incident. Much better than the issues I had with MP4Nation and my Sflo2s..... Whats so comical tough is all 3 of these devices came to my house either consecutively damaged or defective. I guess the Audio Gods have it out for me ;). Even the ibasso unit came to me defective :P.
 


Edited by lee730 - 8/19/12 at 10:32pm

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post #407 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by temporaryname View Post

Serious questions. Why do you hold that opinion?

 

I suppose reading the latter part of the thread should suffice your curiosity, the umbrage is clearly there for the layman to see... btw I am taking it that you've actually read through the thread

post #408 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK-Guy View Post

 

I suppose reading the latter part of the thread should suffice your curiosity, the umbrage is clearly there for the layman to see... btw I am taking it that you've actually read through the thread

 

It does. When a bunch of newbies start hyping a thread that was very recently negative, I'm always suspicious. I don't believe in coincidence and astroturfing is a very real phenomenon.
post #409 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT66 View Post


good well be true! - I can't stand Saggy Chops, he's the man that sold Rio and bought Dailly and Song with the money!

 

HM-901 - going by pedigree it should be good, but I don't like the silly dock, whats wrong with RCA line out?

 

Will it sound better than my 601/Voyager combo? Will we be able to actually see one in the UK? is  Fang coming in September?

I didn't like the UI demo, not that that will stop me buying anything. It's all about the sound, I don't care about size, battery life, etc just the sound. but it

will have to be a CD12 killer for me to get that docking station, for a start where will I put it?

 

Buying this type of thing blind is bad practice and buying on a professional review is even worse.

Again I will rely on the army of amateurs to let us know what it is really like.

 

CD12... my you've some nice Linn equipment... I almost bought the DX100 but it's still a tad buggy, for that type of wonga I want the thing to work properly out of the box, it really shouldn't be down to the customers to act as some open-source r&d dept... no doubt the train-spotters amongst the community love that type of thing but for the ordinary person just looking for a good sound on the move it's an absolute disaster... if a UK hi-fi manufacturer tried any of that malarkey they'd go bankrupt over night.

 

I can't stand Bagpuss either, what he did to Bonds was unforgivable & hopefully Sir Trev made sure he had no hope of getting the England job, bet Billy had a smirk on his face when that was announced... good result on Saturday nice to get off to a good start, bit of calm before the hurricane arrives.

post #410 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by temporaryname View Post

It does.When a bunch of newbies start hyping a thread that was very recently negative, I'm always suspicious. I don't believe in coincidence and astroturfing is a very real phenomenon.

 

actually Turok (newbie?) mentioned HM901 as a possible rival the DX100 to me in another thread, he knows I'm after a hi-end DAP without any bugs etc so I thought I'd come and have a nose... KT66 is definately someone who's view I would respect as we have a common bond so when I saw him posting I decided to read the whole thread (hope that was ok with your goodself, being a kinda newbie like), so I guess after reading the submissions I kinda formed a opinion.

 

astroturfing... wtf is that all about?

post #411 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK-Guy View Post

 no doubt the train-spotters amongst the community love that type of thing but for the ordinary person just looking for a good sound on the move it's an absolute disaster... if a UK hi-fi manufacturer tried any of that malarkey they'd go bankrupt over night.

LOL

 

Well I like the bug catching as I did that for a living but I sure as hell am not plunking down that type of coin for something with glaring software bugs. Regardless of how good it "sounds". Some people do as is evident in that DX100 thread but I am not. I agree with you.

 

Hell the MP3 players that I tested came out with minimal bugs. Of course the quantities were a significantly greater.

post #412 of 733

I'm a technologist my profession but I'm also an audio enthusiast in my free time. When I'm on Head-Fi, I put on my audio enthusiast hat on and when I'm in xda-developers I put on my other hat on there (although I'm not there often). One thing though is I definitely don't get the two mixed up.

post #413 of 733

I do similar things. I am a computer science major with tons of interests in the technology world. You should see my collection of hats I wear. :-D

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

I'm a technologist my profession but I'm also an audio enthusiast in my free time. When I'm on Head-Fi, I put on my audio enthusiast hat on and when I'm in xda-developers I put on my other hat on there (although I'm not there often). One thing though is I definitely don't get the two mixed up.

post #414 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

I'm a technologist my profession but I'm also an audio enthusiast in my free time. When I'm on Head-Fi, I put on my audio enthusiast hat on and when I'm in xda-developers I put on my other hat on there (although I'm not there often). One thing though is I definitely don't get the two mixed up.

Why not?


Technology has converged. It has for quite some time, Where this is audio but the software components are still all firmly planted in the Software development world. Otherwise include buttons and not touchscreen ;)

 

everything now a days revolves around software.


The TV that has Netflix on it, the Blu-ray player to run Blu-Ray discs. MP3 players running either very simple (read Ipod shuffle) and then more complicated MP3 players (read Cowon J3, Ipod Touch/Iphone) etc.

 

Software impacts User Experience now a days. Even if the hardware is the best thing in the known universe, put a half attempt at middleware and it short changes the entire product. Mind you the bar is set already whether you want to believe it or not. ;)

post #415 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by figgie View Post

Why not?


Technology has converged. It has for quite some time, Where this is audio but the software components are still all firmly planted in the Software development world. Otherwise include buttons and not touchscreen ;)

 

everything now a days revolves around software.


The TV that has Netflix on it, the Blu-ray player to run Blu-Ray discs. MP3 players running either very simple (read Ipod shuffle) and then more complicated MP3 players (read Cowon J3, Ipod Touch/Iphone) etc.

 

Software impacts User Experience now a days. Even if the hardware is the best thing in the known universe, put a half attempt at middleware and it short changes the entire product. Mind you the bar is set already whether you want to believe it or not. ;)

 

the bar is set by iPod/Apple you only have to look at the hi-end manufacturers falling over themselves to get 'made for iPod' products out, they preach hi-fi but expect you accept a sub-standard source... shame on them I say.

 

physical buttons should be included on every DAP though I may seem to be selfish in this but there is a reason... I have a disability my hands shake... touchscreens are the bain of my life, I hate the poxy things in truth... life with my WM-Z's is fraught with problems, at home it's easy-peasy I can do the continual taps until I get it right, on the move it's a different story I've more or less given up trying to listen to what I want and instead play a form of 'lucky-dip' where I have to guess who I'm listening to (yes you can play games on the WM-Z, it says so in the manual), physical buttons would just make everything so much easier (I like the HM901's design)... I may have a love/hate relationship with my Sony Z1070's but the user interface is easy to use, there's no bugs (except for me), the size is bang-on for my sausage-fingers, it has a great SQ & soundstage and imo is very underated... mass manufacturers huh.


Edited by OK-Guy - 8/20/12 at 9:37am
post #416 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by figgie View Post

Why not?


Technology has converged. It has for quite some time, Where this is audio but the software components are still all firmly planted in the Software development world. Otherwise include buttons and not touchscreen ;)

 

everything now a days revolves around software.


The TV that has Netflix on it, the Blu-ray player to run Blu-Ray discs. MP3 players running either very simple (read Ipod shuffle) and then more complicated MP3 players (read Cowon J3, Ipod Touch/Iphone) etc.

 

Software impacts User Experience now a days. Even if the hardware is the best thing in the known universe, put a half attempt at middleware and it short changes the entire product. Mind you the bar is set already whether you want to believe it or not. ;)

 

I think you've clearly misunderstood my message. I didn't say that technology and audio cannot co-exist. I'm saying when I'm on Head-Fi, I know my priorities are about audio. Technology OTOH, is merely a tool to implement/execute that audio to it's advertised specs. So if a DAPs plays audiofiles beautifully, it's fulfilled it's goal - it doesn't have the latest OS. Similarly with the HM901 having dual DACs - I'd rather make my conclusions after listening to one rather than just disrepute a product based on theory. I don't believe that we have mastered and quantified the science of sound 100% 'cos if we did, then we'd all be solely be reading graphs and waterfalls charts to make our decisions. The ultimate decision will still be my ears.

 

That is with my head-fi hat on.

 

If you can conclusively tell me that the DX100/HDP-R10 will improve it's SQ, ability to sort tracks correctly with every album upload, or correctly recognise ID3 tags and artwork just by upgrading its OS to ICS or JB, then my ears are open to your reasoning. Similarly if you can conclusively guarantee that the HM901 would sound exactly the same without the additional DAC, I'd also lend you my ears.

post #417 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

I think you've clearly misunderstood my message. I didn't say that technology and audio cannot co-exist. I'm saying when I'm on Head-Fi, I know my priorities are about audio. Technology OTOH, is merely a tool to implement/execute that audio to it's advertised specs. So if a DAPs plays audiofiles beautifully, it's fulfilled it's goal - it doesn't have the latest OS. Similarly with the HM901 having dual DACs - I'd rather make my conclusions after listening to one rather than just disrepute a product based on theory. I don't believe that we have mastered and quantified the science of sound 100% 'cos if we did, then we'd all be solely be reading graphs and waterfalls charts to make our decisions. The ultimate decision will still be my ears.

 

That is with my head-fi hat on.

 

If you can conclusively tell me that the DX100/HDP-R10 will improve it's SQ, ability to sort tracks correctly with every album upload, or correctly recognise ID3 tags and artwork just by upgrading its OS to ICS or JB, then my ears are open to your reasoning. Similarly if you can conclusively guarantee that the HM901 would sound exactly the same without the additional DAC, I'd also lend you my ears.

 

It is not theory.


It is 16 years of experience talking. ;)

 

I can not conclusive state anything especially on someone ELSE shoddy development work. Mind you that it is not even iBasso doing the work. It is RockChip since it is there closed system. I still don't get how the MusicT60.apk player takes so long to index. My guess. they created there own file read routine instead of leveraging google's.

 

With that said, judging by what was released. I am sure that there development skills are not up to googles work, or even the majority of the xda developers. and the last aforementioned group are usually lone person working on couple of device.

 

Just in the SAME OS 2.3.1... ver 1.1.7 was imporved by 1.2.3. SQ (at least some people thought so making that a SUBJECTIVE gain) meaning that "sound" has more than just the OS to contend with. again can not tell you anything because people hear differently. Some liked it. Some don't. But without an objective form of measurement... it is all subjective. So if the same OS had "improvements" within it's own version, why would ANY one say that an OS would improve SQ? Hell I didn't even say that. What it did say is that it might improve memory managment, better HAL, better power management. Of course all this has to be CODED for it.


Drivers, how the DSP is leverage, the external routines to leverage the ESS chip, the code itself (loops, integer useage v floating point) any filters that are being put in place. Without access to the DSP code, better SQ is based on just it's predecessor and not a 20-20khz plus minus 0 dB deviation. One being subjective, one being objective.

 

So again, with the Dual DSP in the 901. That has to be coded for and for true impartiallity, DBx performed. Then and ONLY then can one objectively compare if there is infact differences. otherwise the words, I think, it feels, it sounds etc are used.  Like I said, Fig-666 will have quad DSP in them. 32 channels out. Good enough to control a studio mixer. ;)

post #418 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by figgie View Post

 

It is not theory.


It is 16 years of experience talking. ;)

[tech talk]

 

16 years of tech experience is what I guess you mean. Although I would love to hear your practical audio experiences in these DAPs and in terms of sound how they compare & contrast to each other.

 

Edit: Speaking of practicality, did anyone manage to try the HM901 when it was a prototype? As mentioned in much earlier posts, I did have a listen to the prototype in the May festival when it was feeding off to an external desktop amp but don't know if it was a dual DAC chip or not then. I believe since then, Fang did demonstrate the same setup in a meet in US? Did he mention whether that prototype had 1 or 2xDACs in it?

post #419 of 733

When does the HIfiman 901 go on sale or pre-order? Will there be a special pre-order price? Will feng lend a HM-901 let a experienced member so they can post an impression?I am interested in buying one. When will he officially post to America the specs and amps if anything. We are getting fed information through the China website .....why not post to USA too?

post #420 of 733

He said the hm901 will be on sale in October (if everything doing fine).

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