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Why do CDs sound better than loss less audio files? - Page 2  

post #16 of 168

I noticed this too when I started getting interested in audio. The difference was really obvious, and although I'm not immune to placebo, it was something I was by no means expecting. I mean if it's lossless how could it sound so different? This was noticeable using windows media player with cheap PC speakers, so not even audiophile grade stuff. I never bothered to re-try this, but I might. I know my rips are accurate, Audiochecker gives me 100% to 99.8% in every rip.

post #17 of 168

Take the ripped FLAC files and burn an audio CD, then compare it with the original one, on the same CD player using the same playback chain. Does it sound the same?


Although I would suspect placebo hard at work, as lossless is lossless, differences in the playback chain will also account for what you describe. You should really try to have someone do the playback switching blindly for you.

post #18 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoebeFairchild View Post

I use Ubuntu 11.10 64 bit

I would not be surprised if the problem is caused by a dodgy driver in Linux. I've stopped using Linux for any audio applications long ago as there was simply way more audible noise and artifacts in the signal vs. Windows. Naturally, this would vary depending on the specific hardware that you have, so this is just a guess. Try running windows on a live USB and see how the audio performance is over there.
Edited by jupitreas - 5/3/12 at 1:08pm
post #19 of 168
PhoebeFairchild was a total nutjob who was banned more than once.
post #20 of 168

Guys, I am puzzle with the same results too. Although my case is .ape file. In fact mine case is more direct. I downloaded .ape audio files, burn the same tracks into different brand CD-Rs and all sound different from each other, some even sound like MP3 which drop alot in sound quality... fair enough since different quality of CD-R used.

But what really puzzled me is... playing those burnt CD-R from the laptop sound way better than playing the same tracks in .ape file! Both using same window media player, same setting everything. I connect my laptop with Yamaha YSP-4100 sound system tru HDMI cable. This happen even I change another laptop or software to play. May i know why?

post #21 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegalau View Post

Guys, I am puzzle with the same results too. Although my case is .ape file. In fact mine case is more direct. I downloaded .ape audio files, burn the same tracks into different brand CD-Rs and all sound different from each other, some even sound like MP3 which drop alot in sound quality... fair enough since different quality of CD-R used.

But what really puzzled me is... playing those burnt CD-R from the laptop sound way better than playing the same tracks in .ape file! Both using same window media player, same setting everything. I connect my laptop with Yamaha YSP-4100 sound system tru HDMI cable. This happen even I change another laptop or software to play. May i know why?

The most likely reason why is because the mind is a powerful thing. The differences are in your head.

 

There could be encoder/decoder problems, or your CD burner/reader could be inconsistent... but I'm pretty sure this would just sound like clicks, pops, or skipping rather than an overall quality loss.

post #22 of 168
chewy4, i mean reading from cd sound better, if inconsistent, flicker or jitter something it would make it worst. its so obvious that even my sister and friends can tell the difference without knowing which i am playing from. means our mind is not the problem here. one of my friend give reasonable answer to this is
post #23 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegalau View Post
 one of my friend give reasonable answer to this is

Which is?

 

I'm just giving the most likely reason here.

 

There are reasons why a difference could exist between hard drive and CD playback: Your hard drive could be bad, messing up playback on your computer. Your media player's APE decoder could be faulty. Your computer could have high DPC latency.

 

As for the differences between CD-R's: your burning software could be bad, your CD reader/writer could be bad, or you could be using scratched CD's. That's the only way that actual differences would exist. CD's are just pits and landings. A pit is a 0, a landing is a 1.

 

But these would result in dropouts, skipping and such. Not overall sound quality differences, which seem to be what you are describing. It is much more probable that the differences are imagined.

post #24 of 168

I received Sonic Youth's album Goo a few months ago, which is very well recorded and mastered IMO. I ripped it with EAC and the log showed everything went well, so the files should be identical. I'll try playing the files and then the CD to see if I can hear differences. However I'll have to use Windows XP, which has no WASAPI support.

post #25 of 168

The reason my friend given is while we're playing .ape from harddisk, the PC or laptop is processing multiple data at the same time, means your ape file codes is processing with alot other programs that's running at the same time. However, on the other hand, while we're playing CD-R, the CD drive itself already process the CD digital signal and output it in analog, so compare with those digital signal convert using chips or board on your mother board, which at the same time running alot of windows programs, sound from CD drive would sound better.

 

I kinda buy this idea, sounds logic to me and even my mother who is not sensitive to audio that much can tell there're different.

 

chewy4 , case you mention didn't seems likely... see if

1) hard drive is bad, then when i brunt it into CD-R, it would be bad too because the source is bad. So this case CD-R won't sound better

2) Media APE decoder faulty, in this case while bruning it into CD will have problem to convert into cda files too, which is not my case. I use different player playing APE and CD-R on the same song, but CD-R always sound better.

3) from what i know, if PC in high DPC latency can't even run the song smoothly. this is another issue, but we're talking about the warmth, depth of the field, beats, power of the presentation. Not talking about lagging when playing a song.

4) for difference in CD-R, it shouldn't be, because my CD-R sound better than harddisk playing the same song. like I said, I burnt the APE file into a CD-R, than using the same CD burner drive to play back the audio it sounds alot better.

post #26 of 168

Ya, by the way. Different bran of CD-R sounds different too. If you use a normal quality data CD-R will make the APE file sound like MP3 while playback. Only using good quality CD-R that specifically made for audio purpose will deliver good results.

post #27 of 168

chwy4, think you might misunderstand my meaning, when i burnt those APE files into CD-R, it's no longer APE file, its been converted into CDA file, its brunt into an audio CD. Hope this clearify because from what you reply i think you though that I brunt an APE file into a CD-R and still remain as APE file, which means i burnt a data CD, this is not the case, i brunt it into an Audio CD.

post #28 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegalau View Post

The reason my friend given is while we're playing .ape from harddisk, the PC or laptop is processing multiple data at the same time, means your ape file codes is processing with alot other programs that's running at the same time. However, on the other hand, while we're playing CD-R, the CD drive itself already process the CD digital signal and output it in analog, so compare with those digital signal convert using chips or board on your mother board, which at the same time running alot of windows programs, sound from CD drive would sound better.

 

 

I doubt your computer's CD player has a DAC on it. The sound should be processed from your sound card/audio chipset, just coming from your CD player rather than hard drive.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by omegalau View Post

Ya, by the way. Different bran of CD-R sounds different too. If you use a normal quality data CD-R will make the APE file sound like MP3 while playback. Only using good quality CD-R that specifically made for audio purpose will deliver good results.

 

 

Explain to me how you can improve the audio quality of a CD-R.

 

Here's what the CD looks like: --_--_-__--__--__---_

Make that better. Keep in mind that the laser can already distinguish between the pits and landings perfectly find, if it misses some you'll hear it as a skip.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by omegalau View Post

chwy4, think you might misunderstand my meaning, when i burnt those APE files into CD-R, it's no longer APE file, its been converted into CDA file, its brunt into an audio CD. Hope this clearify because from what you reply i think you though that I brunt an APE file into a CD-R and still remain as APE file, which means i burnt a data CD, this is not the case, i brunt it into an Audio CD.

 

 

No, I understood what you meant, which is why I mentioned a faulty decoder as a possibility. 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by omegalau View Post

 

1) hard drive is bad, then when i brunt it into CD-R, it would be bad too because the source is bad. So this case CD-R won't sound better

2) Media APE decoder faulty, in this case while bruning it into CD will have problem to convert into cda files too, which is not my case. I use different player playing APE and CD-R on the same song, but CD-R always sound better.

3) from what i know, if PC in high DPC latency can't even run the song smoothly. this is another issue, but we're talking about the warmth, depth of the field, beats, power of the presentation. Not talking about lagging when playing a song.

4) for difference in CD-R, it shouldn't be, because my CD-R sound better than harddisk playing the same song. like I said, I burnt the APE file into a CD-R, than using the same CD burner drive to play back the audio it sounds alot better.

 

 

You're correct. None of those things I mentioned are likely. That's why I've been saying it's much more likely that it's a mental thing. There is nothing in the science behind digital audio that supports your claims. Unless you're not revealing an inconsistency in your testing procedure, like somehow having DSP enabled for CD playback, using a different device, different volume etc...


Edited by chewy4 - 3/9/13 at 2:14pm
post #29 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

I doubt your computer's CD player has a DAC on it.

 

Older CD drives (sold ~8-10 years ago) used to have a built-in DAC, and headphone jack and volume control, but this feature has disappeared since it became possible to play the CD audio data directly on commonly used operating systems without having to install additional software.


Edited by stv014 - 3/10/13 at 11:41am
post #30 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

 

I doubt your computer's CD player has a DAC on it. The sound should be processed from your sound card/audio chipset, just coming from your CD player rather than hard drive.

 

 

 

Explain to me how you can improve the audio quality of a CD-R.

 

Here's what the CD looks like: --_--_-__--__--__---_

Make that better. Keep in mind that the laser can already distinguish between the pits and landings perfectly find, if it misses some you'll hear it as a skip.

 

 

 

 

No, I understood what you meant, which is why I mentioned a faulty decoder as a possibility. 

 

 


 

 

 

Theoritically you're right about the audio quality CD-R is like 01001111001011, but it really difference ALOT with different quality of CD-R brunt. before you brunt the CD-R, use Nero DiseSpeed under Diseinfo to verify the manufacture from Verbatim, mitsubishi, sony rather then CMC , Ritek and etc (FYI, buying an verbatim dosen't mean you get verbatim, you might get CMC and the quality is bad.... ) , from my experience, those greenish reflection CD-R is bad.. the bluyish CD-R provide better result. So far my best result is Mistubishi Record Design CD-R Phono - Rex CD-R. Try both CD-Rs in home theather system, Hi - fi system or car audio, and sure you'll notice the difference with another cheap CMC or Ritek CD-R. By the way the better your sound system, the more obvious the difference you able to notice.

 

From what you're telling... you're telling the recording quality on Japan made expensive CD-R is the same with cheap china made CD-R? sure there's difference... you try to brunt two CD-Rs, like I mentioned above, one with good quality CD-R and the other one with bad quality. Test those CD-Rs brunt quality using Nero DiseSpeed for error C1 and C2, you'll see the bad quality CD-R results significantly with very obvious higher errors, peak or average errors. Bare in mind that although with alot of errors, the bad quality CD-R still playing smoothly in CD player or audio system.

 

In order to hear it as a "SKIP" in CD, you need alots of errors in a string, not a few of pits and landing. I have a very good quality original CD album, you can see very abvious cracked line even see things through the CD, however, it still play perfectly in my CD player. No skipping at all.

 

Back to your question about how to improve CD-R quality, I am not a CD-R manufacturer engineer, i won't know how to improve the quality. However, I do know that business man will cut down their cost as much as possible and produce a CD-R just enough for you to burn and read, this is china made CD-R. However there's still business man who wants provide premium quality product, trying to make every CD-R provide the quality of burning as closer to error free as possible, that's japan made CD-R

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