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Aurisonics ASG-1: Which tips are the best? (with reviews to come) - Page 8

post #106 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitefroded View Post



I agree with the seal not affecting the mids at all, though the tip selection definitely does IMO. When using tips that create a greater distance from the driver than the stock tips (ie double and triple flanges), the upper mid bump is reduced quite a bit. Which is another reason why I think I will just go ahead and order the customs. Though I will have to put them on the secret credit card so I dont upset the wife :P.

 



Tip selection changes the seal though...  So if the tip selection affects it, so will the seal, that's why the tip selection is done.  It's not only done for insertion depth, but also for a better seal.  A bad seal, in general, does more than just cause bad bass.  It can cause harsh highs, and other anomalies here and there.  One of these is the anomaly in the midrange I heard in the A151s causing the higher mids to become resonant and piercing to the ear. 

 

These IEMs are honestly no more shouty than my HF2s...  If anything, the HF2s are slightly harsher than these in regards to the ASGs. 


Edited by tinyman392 - 3/18/12 at 12:53pm
post #107 of 138

Tip selection is more than just seal, it's about nozzle aperture and insertion depth, both of which do not have to affect seal.  If you want to keep insinuating that the majority of users have a bad seal and haven't heard them correctly but you have, then go ahead.  I think it is a disservice to potential buyers.  The ASG-1 is what it is.  It was tuned with very forward mids.  Some will love it, some will not but a "perfect" seal is not going to remove the manufacturers tuning and users sensitivity to it.  Again, this is why they are producing filters, to adjust tuning to a more head-fi friendly signature.

post #108 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Tip selection is more than just seal, it's about nozzle aperture and insertion depth, both of which do not have to affect seal.  If you want to keep insinuating that the majority of users have a bad seal and haven't heard them correctly but you have, then go ahead.  I think it is a disservice to potential buyers.  The ASG-1 is what it is.  It was tuned with very forward mids.  Some will love it, some will not but a "perfect" seal is not going to remove the manufacturers tuning and users sensitivity to it.  Again, this is why they are producing filters, to adjust tuning to a more head-fi friendly signature.


Yea x2, even Dale stated it was tuned that way on purpose for musicians to use on stage hence the development of the filter for non-musicians and such.

 

post #109 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Tip selection is more than just seal, it's about nozzle aperture and insertion depth, both of which do not have to affect seal.  If you want to keep insinuating that the majority of users have a bad seal and haven't heard them correctly but you have, then go ahead.  I think it is a disservice to potential buyers.  The ASG-1 is what it is.  It was tuned with very forward mids.  Some will love it, some will not but a "perfect" seal is not going to remove the manufacturers tuning and users sensitivity to it.  Again, this is why they are producing filters, to adjust tuning to a more head-fi friendly signature.



How am I insulting?  All I'm saying is that tip selection does affect a seal.  Better fit in general causes the sound to improve and walk closer to what it's supposed to be.  I know, and have stated that these IEMs are fit dependent (not tip dependent).  The reason being that without a proper fit (depth, seal, etc), they will not sound right.  The statement that these will always be shouty is what I think is more of a disservice to potential buyers.  They just require a great fit as a good fit isn't enough. 

 

I'm going to say that at first, I did get shouty mids...  I had a seal I thought was good enough, it just wasn't.  Through choosing new tips and inserting them deeper, there is no shoutyness.  It's gone, entirely, my Etymotics sound more shouty than these do now (and no one has ever called the HF2s shouty).  I'll agree that these IEMs will not fit everyone's tastes, but isn't that an automatic assumption we can make with any IEM?  Better put, is there any IEM that is perfect for everyone?  The answer is no. 

 

These IEMs provide an analytical sound signature with a slight bass boost.  Analytical is not for everyone, many people hate it to begin with.

post #110 of 138

On another idea, maybe our definitions of shouty are different.  I see shouty as more of a resonant sound, but not quite resonant yet.  It has a harshness associated with it.  What's your definition of shoutyness?  It's not defined in the describing sound glossary.

 

If people are going to say it's always going to be shouty, then that means that everyone will hear the shoutyness.  There are plenty of people on this forum that don't (I know of two or three in the other thread that said they didn't). 

post #111 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post



How am I insulting? 

 

The statement that these will always be shouty is what I think is more of a disservice to potential buyers.  They just require a great fit as a good fit isn't enough. 


Insinuating, not insulting.

 

Obviously the majority of owners, who have posted, must be wrong then but please do not tell me what kind of seal or fit I obtained.

post #112 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post


Insinuating, not insulting.

 

Obviously the majority of owners, who have posted, must be wrong then but please do not tell me what kind of seal or fit I obtained.



I never said they were wrong...  I just said that it's a poor assumption to tell everyone who is a potential buyer that you will get shoutyness since there are people (outside myself) that don't hear the shoutyness at all (if you read through the other ASG-1 thread, there were about 3 people who posted exactly what I did; they didn't hear any shoutyness). If shoutyness was a true property of these IEMs, the people who don't hear it would be able to hear why someone would think that...  I'm not getting even a hint of where you'd hear it.


Edited by tinyman392 - 3/18/12 at 1:21pm
post #113 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post



I never said they were wrong...  I just said that it's a poor assumption to tell everyone who is a potential buyer that you will get shoutyness since there are more people (outside myself) that don't hear the shoutyness at all (if you read through the other ASG-1 thread, there were about 3 people who posted exactly what I did; they didn't hear any shoutyness). 

 

You have implied they didn't get proper seal and fit and that only if they had, there would not be shouty mids.  That is my issue your assertation.  If you don't hear that aspect, that's great, I have no problem with discussing it.  It's all in how you presented it.  In fact, it will be interesting to see your take, and those that don't hear the shouty mids, on how the new filters affect what you hear and perhaps one of you should be a tester of them as well.

post #114 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

 

You have implied they didn't get proper seal and fit and that only if they had, there would not be shouty mids.  That is my issue your assertation.  If you don't hear that aspect, that's great, I have no problem with discussing it.  It's all in how you presented it.  In fact, it will be interesting to see your take, and those that don't hear the shouty mids, on how the new filters affect what you hear and perhaps one of you should be a tester of them as well.



I'm planning on purchasing a filter when they are released.  At the moment, the demo models of the filters are permenent and can't be removed (from what Dale has told me).  Since I do like the sound, I'm not going to risk putting on filters and finding out I don't like it.  I have no clue on what is causing the shouty mids; there are way too many variables.  I have an idea of what the shoutyness is based on what I originally heard when I first tried on the IEMs, but that was due to an insertion depth issue.  My definition of shoutyness includes a mix of the following to create a shouty sound:

  • Tiny
  • Piercing
  • Slight resonance
  • Bright
  • Edgy
  • Hard
  • Harsh
  • Shrill

 

It doesn't help that I don't have a specific definition to look for.  I did hear shoutyness (look above for what I heard in the higher midrange) when I first put them on, but again, insertion depth and a swap of tips fixed all of that.  All I really know is that a lot of people are hearing this shoutyness, tips can change the amount of shoutyness in there, and decrease it at times.  I also know there are a few people (no including myself) that feel the same way I do, no shoutyness.  I do know that there are a lot of causes of of some of the above descriptions of what I think shoutyness is including:

  • Insertion depth
  • Seal
  • Length of ear canal (this can attribute to resonance)
  • Insertion angle
  • Preference of sound
  • Ears sensitivity to certain frequencies

 

I then go and take a look at how likely any of these causes are likely to attribute to a mass of people.  I'm as interested as you are to see why there are a few that don't hear it at all while lots hear it entirely.  So length of ear canal and sensitivity to certain frequencies are removed from the table (the chances of just two people being sensitive to the same degree to a certain frequency is rare) and ear canal length is also not a cause. 

 

What's left is the insertion depth, seal, insertion angle, and preference of sound.  We have already had one person get theirs fixed due to insertion angle, depth and seal simply because he was inserting it wrong the whole time (his story was in the Aurisonics thread).  I honestly think the cause of all of these is a mix of the above reasons.  It could be the depth, seal, angle, and sound preferences all coming together.  I haven't, however, left out the idea that there could be another cause.  One example of this would be the formal definition of how we view shouty as there is no set definition yet.  It's hard for me to hear something when I might have the wrong definition (I only have an idea of what I think it is). Another idea is the IEM they are coming from.  If coming from an extremely warm, smooth IEM, these can seem a bit hard.

 

I only state the fit thing because one person here figured out that he himself was putting the IEMs in wrong all along while others are posting tips on insertion.  Is it a possibility that it is entirely because of my preference, sure.  That would also mean that half the people who own these right now (about 8-9; four of which, including myself, don't hear shoutyness) also have the preference for it while the other half don't. 


Edited by tinyman392 - 3/18/12 at 1:52pm
post #115 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post



I never said they were wrong...  I just said that it's a poor assumption to tell everyone who is a potential buyer that you will get shoutyness since there are people (outside myself) that don't hear the shoutyness at all (if you read through the other ASG-1 thread, there were about 3 people who posted exactly what I did; they didn't hear any shoutyness). If shoutyness was a true property of these IEMs, the people who don't hear it would be able to hear why someone would think that...  I'm not getting even a hint of where you'd hear it.


Try pretty much any Diana Krall album and maybe you will hear it.  I really wanted to keep the ASG-1 but they literally gave me a screaming headache from listening to her.  The first and second track on Eva Cassidy's Live at Blues Alley will also bring out the "Shoutyness".  I can't say I heard it on everything I sampled but it was extremely obvious on these particular singers and I listen to them allot so it was a deal killer for me.  Being one of the early adopters, just like shotgunshane, I was super psyched about these and really bummed out that they were just not the sound I was looking for.  That being said, I will probably try the ASG-2 or maybe the ASG-1 again with the new filters if they end up sounding like something I would like.

 

post #116 of 138

MGMT - Kids on FLAC (maybe on youtube, havent tried it) is a great example of the shouty mids also. And Tinyman, I know what a good seal is, and I am getting it, tips have nothing to do with a good seal (unless they dont fit.) Regardless of the mids, I am a very big fan of these iems, so muchy so that my Doc says I need to take a week long break from iems. I am going to use that week to send them in for the filters!

post #117 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosley01 View Post


Try pretty much any Diana Krall album and maybe you will hear it.  I really wanted to keep the ASG-1 but they literally gave me a screaming headache from listening to her.  The first and second track on Eva Cassidy's Live at Blues Alley will also bring out the "Shoutyness".  I can't say I heard it on everything I sampled but it was extremely obvious on these particular singers and I listen to them allot so it was a deal killer for me.  Being one of the early adopters, just like shotgunshane, I was super psyched about these and really bummed out that they were just not the sound I was looking for.  That being said, I will probably try the ASG-2 or maybe the ASG-1 again with the new filters if they end up sounding like something I would like.

 


I think I know what you guys are talking about now...  However, this property is also present in my Etymotic HF2s and EtyKids.  Can you listen to Rihanna's Chears (I Drink to That) and let me know if you hear it (I think you'll hear it when she sings "I Drink to That" with a lot of energy after the chorus).  The property will most likely show itself towards the middle of the song more and goes on until the end.  Like I said though, this property is also present in both of my Etymotics in a similar quantity.

post #118 of 138

I think most people aren't use to the shoutiness because the ASG-1's to my ears, don't roll off the mid frequencies.  It puts the mids very in your fast and lets them extend, sustain, and carry the note out.  Kind of like mini-crescendos off every emphasized notes in the mid frequencies, which makes sense for a stage or even recording monitor, but it's not what many users are accustomed to, so they may roll it off into "shoutiness", which may or may not match your definition.

 

Kind of like people usually say to-"may"-toe rolling the may down through the to, but these ASG's are tuned and pronounce it with a heavy accented/raised to-"mah"-toh, emphasizing the mah letting it extend through and over the toh, so it can sound a bit "piercing" or too bright to some, especially when combined with the fact that these are very mid-focused/emphasized as is.

 

Sidenote: Some quick/random thoughts.  Been burnt in around 50 hours maybe and these do sound different than the first few days.  Definitely not as harsh, seems to have calmed down quite a bit removing a deal of the speakerbox effect.  Yes-the mids and their shoutiness effect has also smoothed out a bit, but the characteristic is still there of course, naturally.

 

Bass seems stronger, more textured.  Though still not quite as strong yet for my preferences.  Sub-bass is there, definitely, but I feel these are lacking a bit in mid-bass.  Thing with these are that a track needs to have bass in it- like really engineered into it, if the recording or track just half-arsed it into the song then the track will sound very sparse and plain, except for the occasional sub-bass rumble.  Alternatively with great recordings, they produce well with tight, controlled bass.  For more general audiences, I think these would benefit with  some EQ/BBE or use of the digizoid ZO.  Seems to fill in some of the hollowness in the mid-bass section and add a touch of warmth.

post #119 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by munkyballz View Post

I think most people aren't use to the shoutiness because the ASG-1's to my ears, don't roll off the mid frequencies.  It puts the mids very in your fast and lets them extend, sustain, and carry the note out.  Kind of like mini-crescendos off every emphasized notes in the mid frequencies, which makes sense for a stage or even recording monitor, but it's not what many users are accustomed to, so they may roll it off into "shoutiness", which may or may not match your definition.

 

Kind of like people usually say to-"may"-toe rolling the may down through the to, but these ASG's are tuned and pronounce it with a heavy accented/raised to-"mah"-toh, emphasizing the mah letting it extend through and over the toh, so it can sound a bit "piercing" or too bright to some, especially when combined with the fact that these are very mid-focused/emphasized as is.

 

Sidenote: Some quick/random thoughts.  Been burnt in around 50 hours maybe and these do sound different than the first few days.  Definitely not as harsh, seems to have calmed down quite a bit removing a deal of the speakerbox effect.  Yes-the mids and their shoutiness effect has also smoothed out a bit, but the characteristic is still there of course, naturally.

 

Bass seems stronger, more textured.  Though still not quite as strong yet for my preferences.  Sub-bass is there, definitely, but I feel these are lacking a bit in mid-bass.  Thing with these are that a track needs to have bass in it- like really engineered into it, if the recording or track just half-arsed it into the song then the track will sound very sparse and plain, except for the occasional sub-bass rumble.  Alternatively with great recordings, they produce well with tight, controlled bass.  For more general audiences, I think these would benefit with  some EQ/BBE or use of the digizoid ZO.  Seems to fill in some of the hollowness in the mid-bass section and add a touch of warmth.


I see what you're saying, can anyone confirm whether or not what I hear in Rihanna's Cheer's (I Drink to That) is shoutyness? 

 

Regarding your mid-bass, UE silicone tips kinda helped me out there :p

 

EDIT: if it matters, I have a 256k/s AAC iTunes Plus version of that.

 


Edited by tinyman392 - 3/18/12 at 2:18pm
post #120 of 138


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by munkyballz View Post

I think most people aren't use to the shoutiness because the ASG-1's to my ears, don't roll off the mid frequencies.  It puts the mids very in your fast and lets them extend, sustain, and carry the note out.  Kind of like mini-crescendos off every emphasized notes in the mid frequencies, which makes sense for a stage or even recording monitor, but it's not what many users are accustomed to, so they may roll it off into "shoutiness", which may or may not match your definition.

 

 



Great description.

 

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