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FitEar TO GO! & Universal Series --- Suyama's custom IEM, made universal! - Page 29

post #421 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

For the 111 to match the ER4S so closely in FR with just one single BA from Knowles, it has to be the ED-29689.

 

The ER4S is difficult to drive because it contains 78 ohms in series attached to the ED driver (for a total of 105 ohm DC resistance = 100 ohm impedance when the reactance of the ED driver is factored in; see picture diagram).

 

ER4 Circuit

 

I'd like to find out what the impedance of the TG! 111 is, to see what the effects are of the titanium (or is it stainless steel?) tube are on FR. AFAIK, the ER4 all use 1500 ohm of acoustic resistance on their dampers; it's possible FitEar changed both the dampers and resistance to provide a better match with the metal sound tube, or it could be all the same.

 

If they do manage to provide an ER4S response in an easy-to-drive package, plus the comfort of an over-ear design, I think the TO GO! 111 will be a hit with recording/mixing/mastering engineers all around. ~$490 is not that much of a premium over the Etymotic asking price given the numerous comfort benefits. I'm sure industry professionals in Japan will be clamoring for it.

Is that diagram from Etymotic because it looks like the BA and 56 ohm resistor are in parallel making the overall impedance of all three positions about 28 ohms, The driver is 7 ohms on it's own. I would think the circuit would look more like this.

4s.jpg

post #422 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremypsp View Post

So basically the 111 is like an ER-4S that doesn't need amping? That does indeed sound interesting. 

You mean like a 4P? I also think case materials are overstated as there's not much to resonate in acoustric waves of this length. Perhaps the case allows for better driver position in their use because titanium can be made so thin but the material itself should have little affect when it's the same shape and rigid enough. If they're smart enough to make these sound better than other things, they deserve whatever they charge but I doubt it's because they're titanium.

post #423 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

You mean like a 4P? I also think case materials are overstated as there's not much to resonate in acoustric waves of this length. Perhaps the case allows for better driver position in their use because titanium can be made so thin but the material itself should have little affect when it's the same shape and rigid enough. If they're smart enough to make these sound better than other things, they deserve whatever they charge but I doubt it's because they're titanium.

I think 4S was meant as the 4P is supposedly not as good are refined as the 4S (just what i have read many times). So this would actually be rather an impressive feat, in fact i have never tried the ER4 series (just HF5) and this is really intriguing both in design and what is offering.

post #424 of 4412
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post In danger of going for the 111 as I'm a big fan of the ER4S.

 

Me too.

 

Anyways, I think Suyama has some prototype customs with the titanium tube. If it's only the high driver, it shouldn't be too big a problem. You can place most high drivers fairly close to the opening, so there isn't much need for 'bending' anyways. Look at how close the JH16 highs are placed --- The tubing is pretty much always straight.

post #425 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

I think 4S was meant as the 4P is supposedly not as good are refined as the 4S (just what i have read many times). So this would actually be rather an impressive feat, in fact i have never tried the ER4 series (just HF5) and this is really intriguing both in design and what is offering.

I get it but the 4S was first and the 4P came out as exactly that. There's only so much they can do unless they change drivers.

post #426 of 4412
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post  Is that diagram from Etymotic because it looks like the BA and 56 ohm resistor are in parallel making the overall impedance of all three positions about 28 ohms, The driver is 7 ohms on it's own. I would think the circuit would look more like this.

 

The circuit diagram I showed was to show a diagram of how to make a P to S or P to B adapter. The 'IN' portion is already an ER4P, not just the ED driver. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The diagram isn't from Etymotic. I doubt they'd actually publish schematics for the public.

post #427 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Me too.

 

Anyways, I think Suyama has some prototype customs with the titanium tube. If it's only the high driver, it shouldn't be too big a problem. You can place most high drivers fairly close to the opening, so there isn't much need for 'bending' anyways. Look at how close the JH16 highs are placed --- The tubing is pretty much always straight.


I don't fully agree with this. how and where each driver is placed inside the shell requires careful matching and calculating, and even if you can shorten the tube by 2pi there's still energy absorption or damping and tons of other factors to take into account. that may sound too hardcore but unless the tube is designed to have short length in the first place, trying to bring its corresponding BA further down the canal just for the sake of shorten the tube's length is a bit disturbing to me.

 

and not to mention some people have very narrow canals, or weird bends.

post #428 of 4412
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post

I don't fully agree with this. how and where each driver is placed inside the shell requires careful matching and calculating, and even if you can shorten the tube by 2pi there's still energy absorption or damping and tons of other factors to take into account. that may sound too hardcore but unless the tube is designed to have short length in the first place, trying to bring its corresponding BA further down the canal just for the sake of shorten the tube's length is a bit disturbing to me.

 

and not to mention some people have very narrow canals, or weird bends.

 

I get that the proportion of tubing length between the various drivers need to be matched; FitEar's customs all have very short terminations, giving them more room to put their drivers in a relatively short length space, since the beginning portion of the bend is usually wider. They rarely use long acoustic tubing.

 

I'm not saying that it's easy to do, or possible in everyone, but it should be possible in a majority of people. Ear anatomy (well, the important parts, i.e. height, width, depth of concha, angle of the first bend) doesn't have that much variation in terms of relative proportions. You should be able to fit the titanium tubes for ear dimensions within two standard deviations of the average.

post #429 of 4412
Thread Starter 

I wanted to add that the distance from eardrum to second bend is always an approximation, and first bend to second bend distance is the best approximator. As long as that's known, it doesn't matter how short the sound tube termination is. Changes in FR between driver spout and damper are predictable in terms of energy lost.

 

Anyways, we're getting a little OT.

 

I too doubt the absolute benefits of titanium, but it does look and feel cool. If there are palpable benefits, then great. If not, it's at least a plus in build quality. I'll give Suyama the benefit of the doubt and guess that he probably has a good reason for wanting to implement titanium tubes into his customs; we just don't know what those measurable benefits are, and there's no point in debating since it's all just guesswork anyways.

 

The point here is that the 111 somehow matches the ER4S response very closely despite being easier to drive (well, that's what the people who have heard it say). Is it due to the titanium tube? Perhaps. Most likely just partly. How much benefit does it contribute? Do we really need to predict that here? We'll spend forever talking about it, since we don't have acoustic tubing and machined titanium tubes in front of us, along with Listen Inc. SoundCheck software..

 

JM2C

post #430 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

The circuit diagram I showed was to show a diagram of how to make a P to S or P to B adapter. The 'IN' portion is already an ER4P, not just the ED driver. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The diagram isn't from Etymotic. I doubt they'd actually publish schematics for the public.

Now I get it but the 4x position still gives a 49 ohm device?.  So it looks like the 4B puts the high pass cap in parallel with about 1/2 the resistance to achieve close a 3db slope.  

post #431 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

I think 4S was meant as the 4P is supposedly not as good are refined as the 4S (just what i have read many times). So this would actually be rather an impressive feat, in fact i have never tried the ER4 series (just HF5) and this is really intriguing both in design and what is offering.


Also, the ER-4S requires amping, in this case which the 111 will be great if it sounds like the 4S but without amping required.

post #432 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremypsp View Post


Also, the ER-4S requires amping, in this case which the 111 will be great if it sounds like the 4S but without amping required.

Yeh, that is what i was getting at in my post.

post #433 of 4412
It's finally listed in the Fujiya Avic online store as well as PriceJapan. 42 800¥ anyone?
post #434 of 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by palestofwhite View Post

It's finally listed in the Fujiya Avic online store as well as PriceJapan. 42 800¥ anyone?

£350 for a glorified ER4 is going to be a tough nut to swallow but then there are a lot of reasons why i would prefer this.

post #435 of 4412

$20 armature and it sells for 540 USD. ;)

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