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FitEar TO GO! & Universal Series --- Suyama's custom IEM, made universal! - Page 116

post #1726 of 3631

Exactly, it's mostly a non-issue, just a curiosity of the blogger that is shortly mentioned. Seems blown out of porpotion here. 

post #1727 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

Ken/ALO did the balancing of the 000 for me. Not a very good pix of the 000 though.

 

 

1000

 

Dat aperture.

post #1728 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by temporaryname View Post

Dat aperture.

What does this mean?
post #1729 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post


What does this mean?


Maybe show stopper ;).

post #1730 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

What does this mean?

Shallow depth of field in the photo created by using a lens with a low aperture point. The higher your f point number (aperture), or the smaller the little hole in the lens, the wider the field of focus. The lower the f point number, or larger hole in the lens, the shallower the depth of field. This can be used for artistic effect, drawing your attention to only one part of the photo or maybe the photographer wants to take a photo in low light surroundings without using any artificial light (the larger the aperture, more light gets through, meaning you don't have to use artificial light like flash or raise the brightness digitally by using iso).

 

Sorry for the off-topic. 

 

Btw, Inks, thanks for posting that article. It's nice to get some objective measurements to expand our understanding of this expensive headphone. One interesting point I'd like to make is that both me and my friend think the TG!334's sound most like LCD-2's, than other headphones, but the frequency response graphs are completely different! I think this has to do with the fact that on IEM's, you can't really produce proper bass, so you have to over compensate via a bass emphasis, which sounds more correct and flat to our ears (all IMO as always).  With LCD-2's, the driver size is big enough to actually produce real bass waves at a lower frequency than IEM's so that a flat frequency response will sound bassy enough...? What do you guys think?

 

And I'm impressed with the impulse response measurements of the TG!334's. I feel like that points to why they sound so great.. same story with SR-009's... amazing impulse response, amazing attack and decay.... I feel it's related.

 

All speculation of course. 

post #1731 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by temporaryname View Post

 

Dat aperture.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble there, unfortunately it's more like "that software". I used my iPhone 4S to take that shot, but SnapSeed on the iPad has been rather amazing.

post #1732 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

Sorry to burst your bubble there, unfortunately it's more like "that software". I used my iPhone 4S to take that shot, but SnapSeed on the iPad has been rather amazing.

Lol, oh software today. The depth of field is rather striking. I've been looking at this f0.95 lens recently, I believe it's a Voigtlander, and it's bokeh effects are quite mesmerising but substantially more smoothed out and not as sharp as your photo (which makes sense now considering its shopped).

post #1733 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by temporaryname View Post

 

Btw, Inks, thanks for posting that article. It's nice to get some objective measurements to expand our understanding of this expensive headphone. One interesting point I'd like to make is that both me and my friend think the TG!334's sound most like LCD-2's, than other headphones, but the frequency response graphs are completely different! I think this has to do with the fact that on IEM's, you can't really produce proper bass, so you have to over compensate via a bass emphasis, which sounds more correct and flat to our ears (all IMO as always).  With LCD-2's, the driver size is big enough to actually produce real bass waves at a lower frequency than IEM's so that a flat frequency response will sound bassy enough...? What do you guys think?

 

And I'm impressed with the impulse response measurements of the TG!334's. I feel like that points to why they sound so great.. same story with SR-009's... amazing impulse response, amazing attack and decay.... I feel it's related.

 

All speculation of course. 

 

That has actually been tested and it seems to depend on the listener. Iems only produce "heard" bass versus "felt" bass, and so for some there is a gap in quantity when listening to an iem. They miss the "felt" bass and so prefer a bassier sound to help create the illusion of bass in a live setting. I'm not sure if full-size headphones are capable of creating "felt" bass, and therefore don't need a boost to simulate bass quantity... but something like this would partly explain why the 334 and LCD-2 graph so differently while sounding similar. 

 

It seems the need for this big bass illusion can be overcome by some people, and to me this phenomenon seems to be the cause of one of the biggest rifts in all of head-fi.  

post #1734 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

 

That has actually been tested and it seems to depend on the listener. Iems only produce "heard" bass versus "felt" bass, and so for some there is a gap in quantity when listening to an iem. They miss the "felt" bass and so prefer a bassier sound to help create the illusion of bass in a live setting. I'm not sure if full-size headphones are capable of creating "felt" bass, and therefore don't need a boost to simulate bass quantity... but something like this would partly explain why the 334 and LCD-2 graph so differently while sounding similar. 

 

It seems the need for this big bass illusion can be overcome by some people, and to me this phenomenon seems to be the cause of one of the biggest rifts in all of head-fi.  


You mean getting use to listening to bass light IEMs where most emphasis is on treble generally ;).

post #1735 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


You mean getting use to listening to bass light IEMs where most emphasis is on treble generally wink.gif.

No I mean neutral iems with little to no measured bass or treble emphasis. Measured bass seems to be different than perceived bass to a lot of people.
post #1736 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


No I mean neutral iems with little to no measured bass or treble emphasis. Measured bass seems to be different than perceived bass to a lot of people.


Kinda like when you are at a live show or even an orchestra for that matter. The presentation will not sound like it does on a dead neutral IEM. If anything it will sound more like an IEM with some bass emphasis added. Could explain why many like such thing. Because it sounds more natural and realistic. It doesn't have to necessarily be bass-head levels either. But what I would call balanced opposed to dead-neutral.


Edited by lee730 - 12/19/12 at 10:54am
post #1737 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


Kinda like when you are at a live show or even an orchestra for that matter. The presentation will not sound like it does on a dead neutral IEM. If anything it will sound more like an IEM with some bass emphasis added. Could explain why many like such thing. Because it sounds more natural and realistic. It doesn't have to necessarily be bass-head levels either. But what I would call balanced opposed to dead-neutral.

 

That's true, most live shows using amplification have to make compromises in fidelity in order to fill an enormous space with sound, which usually results in mega bass.

 

I think a few instruments playing without amplification in a small room sound closer to a dead-neutral iem. However, something like a kick-drum might still have some level of "felt" bass, so some people would probably prefer an iem reproducing this sound to have a bass boost.

 

The opposing view is that a bass boost negatively affects other frequencies and details, and is unneeded because it doesn't realistically fill the void of a "felt" bass absence. It's not convincing to my ears, and always sounds like the bass is being pushed too far forward into the mix to make up for "felt" bass that iems can't physically recreate. In other words, I hear a distinct difference between louder bass (iems) and "felt" bass, and making bass louder won't trick me into thinking that what I'm hearing is live or "felt"; it only makes the bass too loud compared to other frequencies.

 

Many people are convinced by this bass boost technique though, and that's where the two camps diverge. This theory makes the most sense to me, and perhaps someone will be able to add to it. 

post #1738 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

 

That's true, most live shows using amplification have to make compromises in fidelity in order to fill an enormous space with sound, which usually results in mega bass.

 

I think a few instruments playing without amplification in a small room sound closer to a dead-neutral iem. However, something like a kick-drum might still have some level of "felt" bass, so some people would probably prefer an iem reproducing this sound to have a bass boost.

 

The opposing view is that a bass boost negatively affects other frequencies and details, and is unneeded because it doesn't realistically fill the void of a "felt" bass absence. It's not convincing to my ears, and always sounds like the bass is being pushed too far forward into the mix to make up for "felt" bass that iems can't physically recreate. In other words, I hear a distinct difference between louder bass (iems) and "felt" bass, and making bass louder won't trick me into thinking that what I'm hearing is live or "felt"; it only makes the bass too loud compared to other frequencies.

 

Many people are convinced by this bass boost technique though, and that's where the two camps diverge. This theory makes the most sense to me, and perhaps someone will be able to add to it. 


The thing is though have you actually heard high end IEMs where the bass just isn't louder and unrefined bass as you mention and you can actually somewhat feel it opposed to just hear it (louder). I don't feel the 334s bass is unrefined at all. It is a little lose yeah but very well textured and of really good quality. It has an interesting thickness to it. I don't find it to pollute the sound at all. It doesn't mask detail. I know if there is too much bass (especially uncontrolled bass) it can overpower the presentation and I'm never for that myself. But at the same time I feel the same regarding bass not having enough presence and sounding anemic while treble is overshadowing everything on the other hand. Generally speaking I've always found treble to be the most present frequency in the range on most equipment out there. I just don't see any more need to overemphasize it as well.

 

For what it is worth the 1Plus2s bass is very well textured, deep and well controlled. I can feel it as well as hear it and I don't feel it is what you would call boosted bass because it is in line with the treble and mids. I see it along the lines of balanced. What I would equate to a real world scenario. Even comparing them to my MDR-7550s (reference monitors so very neutral) they just crush them with ease. Not lacking any detail these IEMs also posses and IMO having even more detail to be honest yet having such a big and full sound reminiscent of full size headphones. Doing side by side comparison the MDRs are like toys in comparison. I feel the 334 also puts the MDRs to shame ;).


Edited by lee730 - 12/19/12 at 6:36pm
post #1739 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


The thing is though have you actually heard high end IEMs where the bass just isn't louder and unrefined bass as you mention and you can actually somewhat feel it opposed to just hear it (louder). I don't feel the 334s bass is unrefined at all. It is a little lose yeah but very well textured and of really good quality. It has an interesting thickness to it. I don't find it to pollute the sound at all. It doesn't mask detail. I know if there is too much bass (especially uncontrolled bass) it can overpower the presentation and I'm never for that myself. But at the same time I feel the same regarding bass not having enough presence and sounding anemic while treble is overshadowing everything on the other hand. Generally speaking I've always found treble to be the most present frequency in the range on most equipment out there. I just don't see any more need to overemphasize it as well.

 

For what it is worth the 1Plus2s bass is very well textured, deep and well controlled. I can feel it as well as hear it and I don't feel it is what you would call boosted bass because it is in line with the treble and mids. I see it along the lines of balanced. What I would equate to a real world scenario. Even comparing them to my MDR-7550s (reference monitors so very neutral) they just crush them with ease. Not lacking any detail these IEMs also posses and IMO having even more detail to be honest yet having such a big and full sound reminiscent of full size headphones. Doing side by side comparison the MDRs are like toys in comparison. I feel the 334 also puts the MDRs to shame ;).

 

That's true I haven't heard the 334, and maybe it would sound convincing to me. I'm hoping the ASG-2 will do the job of offering a more bass heavy presentation to compliment the ER4S.

 

We may have a bit of a misunderstanding about "felt" bass though. If you tell me that you can feel the bass from an iem, I'm not sure that's the bass I'm talking about. Felt bass is transmitted to the brain by means other than the ear canal by definition, I think. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong there. If that's true then what you're experiencing could only be boosted bass that is doing a damn good job of sounding like felt bass.

post #1740 of 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

 

That's true I haven't heard the 334, and maybe it would sound convincing to me. I'm hoping the ASG-2 will do the job of offering a more bass heavy presentation to compliment the ER4S.

 

We may have a bit of a misunderstanding about "felt" bass though. If you tell me that you can feel the bass from an iem, I'm not sure that's the bass I'm talking about. Felt bass is transmitted to the brain by means other than the ear canal by definition, I think. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong there. If that's true then what you're experiencing could only be boosted bass that is doing a damn good job of sounding like felt bass.


When I talk about felt bass I mean from the air movement from the actual dynamic drivers. So it has this presence to it, full bodied yet not bloated all all. Just pure authority and control. Of course full size headphones will always have a big advantage in this area but my point is the 1Plus2s bass reminds me very much of full size headphone type bass. The presentation lies in between both IEMs and full size cans. You still get some intimacy known to IEMs yet the presentation is spread out and open, not closed in an in your head which is generally associated with IEMs. I absolutely love this because it makes music that much more engaging and musical to listen to. Plus for me when things are spread out some it helps me to pick things out more than having everything congested and compacted together.


Edited by lee730 - 12/19/12 at 6:56pm
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