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Studio's sound engineer best headphones

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 

Is there some sound engineer in pop/rock music on these forums?

I'm looking for a good cans to mixingsmily_headphones1.gif

I have 40 years experience of top pro studios (ssl, neve vr 88r and old transitor)

I stop pro studios and I have mixing room @ home.

 

So guys who are in my "level"rolleyes.gif oup!!!!! and own or try some top HPhones....give me your experience

It's so difficult here in Belgium to compare those Grado, Audeze, Sennheiser.....!

 

Thanks....and sorry for the music listener but this is ONLY for mixing engineer not DJ,FOH

post #2 of 43

You might ask the same question on gearslutz.com There are a lot of studio and home studio guys who hang out there on the forums....a lot more than here. FWIW, I like the hd580 which is almost identical to the hd600, but I don't have high end monitors in a treated room to compare them to. I'm sure you'll find lots of recommendations for the hd600 since they've been used in classical mastering studios, FWIR....also the k70X..You might want to give a ball park figure for your budget limitation.

post #3 of 43

I would say Sennheiser HD650 or maybe Shure SRH 840

post #4 of 43

The K702 works for me very well for mixing and mastering, but to get the best out of them you'll need some hps amp. Here is more info for you: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595522/akg-k702-vs-beyerdynamic-t1-in-the-studio

 

 

post #5 of 43

Hi,

 

I don't do any mastering but I can give you recommendations for headphones that are good for production and studio use.

 

For studio work you would like to have a very neutral headphone. The HD600, HD650, K702 should be ruled out as they are colored. The K702 has a weird coloration that's meant to make them sound neutral.

 

I would recommend a DT880 as it's very neutral, highly transparent, and very detailed. Plus it's not that expensive.

 

 

post #6 of 43

Just wondering how you came to those conclusions, since I've read otherwise(except in regards to the 650) on so many other threads. Did you compare them to studio monitors in a treated room or the sound of live music, or...? What are you using as your yardstick to compare them to. Not wanting to start a debate, but honestly curious, since I've read so many times that the hd600 is one of the most 'uncolored' and it used to be used for classical mastering. Probably by now the hd800 has been substituted. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

Hi,

 

I don't do any mastering but I can give you recommendations for headphones that are good for production and studio use.

 

For studio work you would like to have a very neutral headphone. The HD600, HD650, K702 should be ruled out as they are colored. The K702 has a weird coloration that's meant to make them sound neutral.

 

I would recommend a DT880 as it's very neutral, highly transparent, and very detailed. Plus it's not that expensive.

 

 



 

post #7 of 43

 

DT880, DT250, HD600, HD800, Shure 940

post #8 of 43

Actually that's a great question. I have not heard monitors in a treated environment but neutral monitors are desired.

 

  • The HD600 is a really good headphone, but I would say hey are not completely neutral or flat. They are still warm and a tad rolled off in the treble, but I would agree that classical on them does sound nice and suing them for mastering classical music would probably work really well. Their mids are nice and so is their bass, soundstage is also quite good. 
     
  • The HD650 is far too colored to even be considered. It's a good headphone, but you want a flat and linear sound so you can properly track (if that's how you say it). Too much bass that bleeds, mids are too lush and mask some details, highs are too smooth and rolled off.
     
  • The K702, as I pointed out in another thread, is a great headphone that is for the most part neutral. My issues with ti arise when you hear the mids and treble. The mids are colored to sound neutral, so they come off as sounding artificial. The mids are still quite resolving and detailed despite the coloration. The bass is another hing as it rolls off early and doesn't reach all that deep. Ok it does go deep, but it becomes barely audible the deeper you go. The soundstage is another negative to me as the depth and height of the stage are somewhat compressed. The width of the stage is great.
     
  • The DT880 is very neutral and open. The treble extends quite high and is transparent and not strident or sibilant. The mids are perhaps a tad recessed but at the same time they are really clear and detailed. The bass reaches down deep and has great control and texture, something neither the HD600 nor K702 can do. The soundstage is also more open than the HD600 and is more precise and you can pick out the direction and placement of instruments better.

 

I find the DT880 to meet the requirements nicely. It's really detailed and you can pick out flaws and errors easily. Has fast transients so you don't get the smearing some other headphones may do. It's the headphone I would use in the studio if I did master tracks. Others may nto agree but it's my view on it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

Just wondering how you came to those conclusions, since I've read otherwise(except in regards to the 650) on so many other threads. Did you compare them to studio monitors in a treated room or the sound of live music, or...? What are you using as your yardstick to compare them to. Not wanting to start a debate, but honestly curious, since I've read so many times that the hd600 is one of the most 'uncolored' and it used to be used for classical mastering. Probably by now the hd800 has been substituted. 


 

post #9 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

 The HD600, HD650, K702 should be ruled out as they are colored. The K702 has a weird coloration that's meant to make them sound neutral.

 

I would recommend a DT880 as it's very neutral, highly transparent, and very detailed. Plus it's not that expensive.

 

 


I would like to respectfully disagree with this.  I personally believe that the HD600 is by far the most neutral can available (possibly moreso than the big contenders), both proven by technical measurements and also based on my testing.

 

I have listened to all the models mentioned except for the K702 which I hope to check out soon.  I use ADAM A7 monitors which in my opinion are extremely well balanced monitors and highly respected within the audio community.  Of course, if you're using NS10s or similar in the studio, you may have become accustomed to a different sound signature and therefore my feedback may be of little value.  All comments below are based on me listening to the headphones myself and then looking at the graphs later, the graphs below did indeed represent exactly what I heard on each which is why I trust Golden Ears measurements.

 

Closed Cans

 

DT250: Close to neutral but with big rolloff in the treble.  This is extremely noticeable, there's no way I could judge the treble on these.

 

01.FR_beyerdynamic_DT250.png

 

SRH-840: Close to neutral although has a boost in the high frequencies.  Not too much brighter than my monitors here, but you just need to compensate for it a bit when mixing.

 

01.FR_Shure SRH840.png

 

SRH-940: WHere's the bass?  Might be a good choice if you are planning to EQ them and can bring back the missing bass because otherwise these are really neutral for a closed can.

 

01.FR_SHURE_SRH940.png

 

Open Cans

 

HD-600: THE reference headphone, very close to flat frequency response.  These sounded closest to my monitors during testing and I hope to get a pair very soon to do detailed comparisons in the same room with my monitors and SRH-840s.  The HD-650s are wonderful for listening but lack the detailed and neutral treble of the HD-600 as the HD-650 is more rolled off and tame.

 

01.FR_HD600.png

 

K702: Seems to be bass light and treble happy ... can't say that this graph is accurate until I hear them to be honest though.

 

01.FR_AKG_K702.png

 

DT880 (600 ohm): Quite neutral except that big boost in the treble.  This makes them harsh in the treble even for material that is mixed without excessive treble.  I can easily see myself creating mixes that lack treble with these as I would be cutting it to compensate.

 

01.FR_DT880_600.png

 

For me it's SRH-840 (closed) and HD600 (open) at present.  Potentially the Brainwavz HM5/Fischer FA-003 will take the lead on closed neutral cans once I hear them.

 

All the best

zambz


Edited by zambz - 2/18/12 at 9:34pm
post #10 of 43

The HD600 is quite more neutral than other headphones but the smoothness of the sound is what would keep me from suing it. Not saying you are wrong but I would like a more treble oriented can for mixing. I understand your points about the DT250 as they are rolled off for sure, and they have a boost in the bass that is not desirable. The DT880 treble in the graph provided isn't that pronounced in my opinion. I never trust graphs as they don't tell the whole story.

 

Then again it's my opinion :)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zambz View Post


I would like to respectfully disagree with this.  I personally believe that the HD600 is by far the most neutral can available (possibly moreso than the big contenders), both proven by technical measurements and also based on my testing.

 

I have listened to all the models mentioned except for the K702 which I hope to check out soon.  I use ADAM A7 monitors which in my opinion are extremely well balanced monitors and highly respected within the mixing community.  All comments below are based on me listening to the headphones myself and then looking at the graphs later, the graphs below did indeed represent exactly what I heard on each which is why I trust Golden Ears measurements.

 

post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

The HD600 is quite more neutral than other headphones but the smoothness of the sound is what would keep me from suing it. Not saying you are wrong but I would like a more treble oriented can for mixing. I understand your points about the DT250 as they are rolled off for sure, and they have a boost in the bass that is not desirable. The DT880 treble in the graph provided isn't that pronounced in my opinion. I never trust graphs as they don't tell the whole story.

 

Then again it's my opinion :)
 

 


Hey mate, I think you make a very valid point in regards to smoothness vs revealing cans.  Many have said that the DT880s (regardless of their treble boost) are more revealing and helpful when mixing.

 

As you said, it's not a huge boost in reality, when you listen to them, they sound only a little brighter than neutral.

 

To be honest, I would probably grab a pair of each (HD600 & DT880) if I would spare the cash ... they are both brilliant! :)

 

Of course, no matter what you do, I don't believe that any headphone will ever be as accurate as a studio monitor.  Cans are best to be used as a secondary reference after studio monitors in my opinion and they can provide certain details and aspects that monitors don't (e.g. I prefer to level vocals on headphones as well as thorough checking of the stereo image which is easier to do on headphones).

 

I'm very fascinated by this discussion too, so will be reading it with interest.

 

Cheers

zambz

post #12 of 43
Thread Starter 

Thanks all of U for reply

 

@lejaz...I've post on gearslutz...get no reply, yet

 

@Zombie_X.....are you a Beyer retailer.etysmile.gif

DT880, I do not think of being able to support the curve in the high frequencies even them perfect symmetry L/Reek.gif

 

Thank you in Zambz for these revealing tables

My favorite on these tables is the HD 600

I'm going to find those golden ears tables, easy to compare theoritically.

post #13 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambz View Post
 

DT250: Close to neutral but with big rolloff in the treble.  This is extremely noticeable, there's no way I could judge the treble on these.

 

 

Is that the 80 Ohm version ? The graph looks very similar to this one. The 250 Ohm version may be different, like shown here, but as usual, graphs should be taken with a grain of salt (it looks much worse at HeadRoom).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by zambz View Post
 

DT880 (600 ohm): Quite neutral except that big boost in the treble.  This makes them harsh in the treble even for material that is mixed without excessive treble.  I can easily see myself creating mixes that lack treble with these as I would be cutting it to compensate.

 

The upper mids look rather bad on this graph, that dip is basically the same as on the DT770. Although other graphs elsewhere (e.g. InnerFidelity and HeadRoom) do not agree with it.

 

post #14 of 43
Thread Starter 

Yes, Zambz, a graph is a simple info

 

I never could stay more than 10mn with a HP on my head, I complain always the musician and artist, who have to suffer that all day long.

 

What do you think about grado alessandro music pro? couldn't find any graph @ goldenears.

 

I'll check @ InnerFidelity and HeadRoom

post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoum View Post

Yes, Zambz, a graph is a simple info

 

I never could stay more than 10mn with a HP on my head, I complain always the musician and artist, who have to suffer that all day long.

 

 

This why you're going for open headphones... is like you're moving to the second control room.


Edited by Acix - 2/19/12 at 3:31am
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