New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The HDMI Cable Discussion - Page 3

post #31 of 338

The cable was either not-to-spec or the TV was the culprit (likely not, since it worked with other cables)

 

Lots of budget (<$20) cables have poor quality control, admittedly. Not enough to justify $80/ft., though, not at all.

post #32 of 338

Yeah, what you described really seems like a TV issue. I mean, for it to be that noticeable (I understood from your description it was really obvious that it was distorting), even if HDMI EMI could result in a serious reproduction problem, you would have to be running it completely unshielded for a big length. Most people with desktop computer use VGA cables with no issue, so I think the problem is with the TV.

post #33 of 338

If you have a to-spec HDMI cable and a to-spec TV, you are all good to go, no issues.

 

The only concern I understand you're saying (Shotor) is worrying that your cable is bad while simultaneously having a bad TV that does not complain about said faulty cable. Keep in mind that for artifacts like snow to appear, you'd have to have TWO conditions: 1) You have a stupid TV. 2) You have a faulty cable.

 

Also keep in mind it is literally impossible for contrast or sharpness to be affected even by a catastrophically faulty cable. At worst, a catastrophically stupidly implemented TV in combination with a catastrophically faulty cable (i.e. not just not to spec, but orders of magnitude worse than spec) could show snow artifacts or skipping, rather than displaying a "faulty connection" message. Even a retarded TV however should work just fine with a to-spec cable. 


Edited by ac500 - 2/15/12 at 6:20pm
post #34 of 338
Thread Starter 

ac500 - excellent explanations and read there :)

post #35 of 338
Expensive digital cables are a waste, well made inexpensive cables are just as good.

So, we pretty much all agree on that. Now, the real fly in the ointment. biggrin.gif Analog cables... people claim to be able to tell a difference, will swear they can hear changes with different interconnects, speaker wires, and headphone cables. Placebo or real?
post #36 of 338
Thread Starter 

Actually that's one I have to ask about as well.

 

I bought some interconnects only due to durability and looks, but how do they really increase SQ if anything?

post #37 of 338

Most people say no. I recabled a pair of Creative Aurvana Lives with Mogami w2893, heard no difference. If you go from a stock copper cable to a silver cable I'd expect you to hear a difference. In the case of analog, I find it fun to make your own cables, it's a cool hobby and it gives you usually a better cable in terms of durability and looks. But I wouldn't do it for improvements, and I would never buy a >100$ cable.

post #38 of 338
So, recabling headphones to silver makes a difference? I've tried it with interconnects and it didn't change my sound at all, but the silver was relatively cheap and, IMO, it looks bad ass in clear PTFE. smily_headphones1.gif

Well, I have some 22AWG silver left, maybe I'll give it a shot and see.
post #39 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardKing1 View Post

Most people say no. I recabled a pair of Creative Aurvana Lives with Mogami w2893, heard no difference. If you go from a stock copper cable to a silver cable I'd expect you to hear a difference. In the case of analog, I find it fun to make your own cables, it's a cool hobby and it gives you usually a better cable in terms of durability and looks. But I wouldn't do it for improvements, and I would never buy a >100$ cable.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

So, recabling headphones to silver makes a difference? I've tried it with interconnects and it didn't change my sound at all, but the silver was relatively cheap and, IMO, it looks bad ass in clear PTFE. smily_headphones1.gif
Well, I have some 22AWG silver left, maybe I'll give it a shot and see.


That's what I thought, there is a lot of hype, especially on head-fi about cables...people selling cable for £200-500 just shocks me.

 

post #40 of 338

That's nothing. Audioquest sells a 21,000$ speaker cable. It apparently has some geometry unknown to mankind or something that makes it thousands of time better than your average 20$ cable. Moon Audio and Cardas also have some ridiculously expensive cables.

 

Silver should actually make a difference, since we're not adding millesimal percentages of copper purity, but you're actually switching the material. Many people report having an overall better sound with silver cables, with better highs. To what extent this is true I don't know, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be. In interconnects just use those small 2-inch ones, any interference will be happening in a very small space (in ac500's metaphor, think of a very small antenna). Like I said, if you can get decent silver at a decent price, and you're into DIY, I see no reason why not to use it. Just don't be surprised if the difference isn't "night and day".

post #41 of 338

When it comes to analog cables, there are a few factors: The distortion from outside interference, and the physical properties of the wire resembling some kind of capacitance and inductance. I don't know all that much about the finer points of analog design, but I don't think the outside interference would make a difference. If it would, then you would hear a static or "hiss" (or maybe even AM radio talk show hosts :P) on your headphone even with your amp playing nothingness. Technically it is possible that current is inducted, yes, but I'm quite doubtful that the amount of energy is sufficient to actually move even the best headphone's voice coil at all. I'd have to do the energy calculation to be sure, but you could show with some certainty the degree to which interference can mess up the signal, and if it's something worth worrying about or not.

 

In any case -- and this is just a guess because analog design is not my territory -- I would imagine that the physical capacitance and inductance of the wire would have more of an effect. What this means is, for longer wires carrying larger currents, there's more of the problem of actually propagating the signal across the medium. Electromagnetic fields interact in complicated ways sometimes, and depending on resistance and magnetic properties of the medium (wire), various "backflows" and "currents" (like a strange twisted river flowing blobby goo) can have effects over time to a signal changing over time. That was probably a very bad analogy, but generally these effects -- capacitance and inductance -- once again are fairly well understood and have been for quite a long time. Just know that cables can indeed have a signal distortion effect (not random, but a certain mathematical kind of distortion physics / simulations can characterize) to currents.

 

What I am skeptical of however is the significance of this distortion. Over a few dozen feet or so even with the most naive copper or whatever cable construction, the actual inductance and capacitance measurements would, to my intuition, be completely insignificant. In particular, a bad cable could roll off treble if it has a capacitance/inductance for example, but I can't imagine it would start before even the megahertz range, let alone the limit of human hearing or the headphone.

 

Once again though I am completely undecided on cables from the theoretical point of view because I have only peripheral education in this area of analog design. I DO know, however, that multiple ABX tests have been done, and I do not recall speaker cables ever being noted as better in such a blind test than coathanger wire, but this is just a perceptual/statistical assertion and doesn't actually prove anything.

post #42 of 338
I believe, that's probably the correct word, I've heard differences in speaker cables on high-end gear. We're talking Wilson and Krell level setups, but the variances didn't blow my hair back (if I had hair), they were very subtle. Transparent, Bettercables, and 12AWG zip all sounded similar. I'm looking over my test notes and I made mention of the Tranparents being a shade brighter, perhaps having better resolution. However, I'd had a little wine at that event... biggrin.gif
post #43 of 338

What's really dumb is buying cables to try to alter the sound. I've seen a user buying a few-hundred-dollar Moon Audio cable to get a "warmer sound". I mean, +3dB on a parametric equalizer is free... A cable, like an amp or a DAC, should be just a transparent medium, it shouldn't alter the original signal at all in terms of amplitude. I would never buy a warmer cable, especially an expensive one, because that means that cable isn't as good as it could be, since I know transparent cables that cost 10$.

post #44 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardKing1 View Post

What's really dumb is buying cables to try to alter the sound. I've seen a user buying a few-hundred-dollar Moon Audio cable to get a "warmer sound". I mean, +3dB on a parametric equalizer is free... A cable, like an amp or a DAC, should be just a transparent medium, it shouldn't alter the original signal at all in terms of amplitude. I would never buy a warmer cable, especially an expensive one, because that means that cable isn't as good as it could be, since I know transparent cables that cost 10$.


indeed what I feel.

 

Out of interest too, why haven't they or haven't I seen headphones solely on OPTICAL connections?

 

I know optical (at least for my xbox) sounds MUCH better than via 3.5mm or RCA

It's an interesting idea no?

 

 

post #45 of 338

Because headphone voice coils are powered by analog electricity :P. At some point the audio data needs to be converted to electrical power relevant to power whatever headphone technology is used. Digital as well as optical is quite useful for everything in computers but at some point the data needs to be delivered to the actual physical device. If you provided a digital signal to a headphone, that would just mean it has to have a DAC and amp inside the headphone itself, which needless to say probably isn't going to sound that good.

 

In other words, the amount of quality lost over a cable from your amp to your headphone is negligible and as far as I know insignificant (although I'm not decided on that entirely); however the quality of your dac and amp is quite significant, so it's much better to have a big desktop dac/amp + long cable, than to have a tiny wimp of an amp built into your headphone and short internal wires from the tiny amp to the drivers.


Edited by ac500 - 2/16/12 at 2:04pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav: