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Fostex TH900 Impressions & Discussion Thread - Page 412

post #6166 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonhead View Post

Hope you Will be happy With sigDJ, nothing wrong in owing th900 and ultrasone ;-)

Im with you guys I also believe that expensive DACs are bollocks, come on it's just a chip that differs. Just another crazy attempt of making an ass out of the customer and making big money!!

Just a chip that differs? Not at all. It's about the power supply, analog output stage and overall design and implementation of the said chipset.
post #6167 of 8018

shore they are built differently that was not my point, mate ;-) 

 

I can't hear any better sound quality in an expensive DAC than a cheap one, 

i think i just one of the scams in the hifi community. 


Edited by Moonhead - 1/24/14 at 2:14am
post #6168 of 8018
Moonhead,

Can you give us some specific examples of the DACS and amps you listened to?
post #6169 of 8018
We'll it doesn't matter what I have listen to when I can't hear any differences.
Maybe you can and that great if you into that, I'm just saying I for one can't and I really don't understand these big brands can rob you crazy amounts of money on an standalone Dac.

Even an iMac or airport express have very good sound-card, that has been proven by engineers.

Please understand I don't intend to diss anyone just share my opinion as others has said the exact same thing.
Edited by Moonhead - 1/24/14 at 6:15am
post #6170 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonhead View Post

We'll it doesn't matter what I have listen to when I can't hear any differences.
Maybe you can and that great if you into that, I'm just saying I for one can't and I really don't understand these big brands can rob you crazy amounts of money on an standalone Dac.

Even an iMac or airport express have very good sound-card, that has been proven by engineers.

Please understand I don't intend to diss anyone just share my opinion as others has said the exact same thing.

 

Could you share the article where engineers prove that the imac has a sound card as good as an audiophile card?

 

You say one second that it's proven, and the other second that it's your opinion so??? I'm not sure I follow you here haha

post #6171 of 8018
post #6172 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llloyd View Post
 

Could you share the article where engineers prove that the imac has a sound card as good as an audiophile card?

 

You say one second that it's proven, and the other second that it's your opinion so??? I'm not sure I follow you here haha

the funniest article i've read about on the dac subject is from nwavguy who wrote a piece where he did a blind comparison between two pieces of equipment covered by cloth and made it seem like one of them is more expensive/badass, and everyone there fell for it.

 

personally, i can't really hear the difference between most dacs, so i couldn't care less to spend more than $100 on such equipment.

post #6173 of 8018

There have been a ton of blind tests done with DACs - both for and against the DAC argument so really nothing can be conclusive. I would say stick to what works for you, but don't insult people that believe the opposite. 

post #6174 of 8018

I A/B'd the TH-900 and TH-600, many will disagree with me and call it blasphemy but I prefer the overall sound and tonality of the TH-600. The TH-900 is superior in detail, high end extension and soundstage, but I prefer the fit of the TH-600 and more natural/full bodied sound of the TH-600. Also prefer the matte black of the TH-600, although the finish of the TH-900 is incredible and sexy.

 

 

post #6175 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

There have been a ton of blind tests done with DACs - both for and against the DAC argument so really nothing can be conclusive. I would say stick to what works for you, but don't insult people that believe the opposite. 

It could also be a case of one's system not being able to resolve the differences between DACs. The difference between DACs (or other components for that matter) become more obvious on better resolving systems, at least that's been my experience through many years of upgrades and system changes.
post #6176 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlach View Post


It could also be a case of one's system not being able to resolve the differences between DACs. The difference between DACs (or other components for that matter) become more obvious on better resolving systems, at least that's been my experience through many years of upgrades and system changes.


I completely agree. ;)

post #6177 of 8018
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greed View Post
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlach View Post

It could also be a case of one's system not being able to resolve the differences between DACs. The difference between DACs (or other components for that matter) become more obvious on better resolving systems, at least that's been my experience through many years of upgrades and system changes.
 

I completely agree. ;)

well, that may be the case, that just means that the improvements are very subtle and not worth all the additional money unless you have $1,500+ headphones... and even then maybe still not really worth the giant price leaps.

 

also, it's hard to say which components actually offer a true technical upgrade in sound quality or rather has a sound presentation that suits your tastes better or even that the specific component is just be more suited for your hi-fi specific set-up. most likely, the dac marketplace simply has absurd perhaps close to 80-90% mark-up on equipment and can get away with it because there isn't enough objective data out there for consumers and there are people willing to throw down that much money for it.

 

i personally find it kind of disconcerting that the audio-gear marketplace often seems to advertise with fancy audiophile words & push consumers to simply "ear-test" for an improvement when hearing is very subjective & easily biased by external factors; rather than promoting their products through true objective technical reasons with a real-life performance correlation why their product is better.

 

like for TV or computers, there is technical specs behind their products that correlate to their performance. whether you subjectively need or like those features is your choice. this allows you to compare lots of different products and narrow down your selection without even having to "demo" everything. even random other niche hobby equipment like bike, e-cigs, cars, snowboards, or pens all have clear explanations about what kind of technology is being used which account for superior performance. however, for audiophile equipment, their performance is hardly ever definitely explained. i find it hilarious that a lot of DAC equipment do not even list the DAC chip in their tech specs and there is this constantly circulating statement about implementation being more important, but there is never any information on exactly what implementation they use that makes their product superior.

post #6178 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

 the dac marketplace simply has absurd perhaps close to 80-90% mark-up on equipment and can get away with it because there isn't enough objective data out there for consumers and there are people willing to throw down that much money for it.

 

None of what you are saying can be proved unless you have insider info or work for said DAC companies. I've built two DIY DACs and plenty of amps - and the cost to construct a lot of these components cost a lot more than you would think. Granted mark-ups are hefty on an individual company basis, a blanket statement that brands every DAC manufacture as crooks in essence (80-90% lol c'mon...) is wrong.. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

well, that may be the case, that just means that the improvements are very subtle and not worth all the additional money unless you have $1,500+ headphones... and even then maybe still not really worth the giant price leaps.

 

Are you speaking from experience? or are you just regurgitating arguments from nay-sayers you trust that believe that DACs don't sound much different? It is a slippery slope when you are talking about DACs I agree, but without hearing the actual differences for yourself - your opinion has no weight IMO. If you can't personally hear the difference between DACs either because your gear isn't resolving enough or your hearing isn't good enough that is different, and I envy you but saying there isn't a difference or they're small is false.

 

Note: Not trying to be rude at all, so please don't take it that way. 


Edited by Greed - 1/24/14 at 6:35pm
post #6179 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

well, that may be the case, that just means that the improvements are very subtle and not worth all the additional money unless you have $1,500+ headphones... and even then maybe still not really worth the giant price leaps.

I have a slightly different take on that. For instance, i think you can extract noticeable improvements between components with as little as $699 headphones (the HifiMan HE-500 comes to mind), to me that does not represent a giant price leap. I think it comes down to knowing which products offer VFM and there are definitely products out there that punch above their weight class. Saying otherwise, as a blanket statement is uninformed IMO. I could live happily ever after with a 1704PCM based DAC from Audio-GD (well under $1K) with the above mentioned headphone without breaking the bank. I speak from acquired experience.
Edited by vlach - 1/24/14 at 10:17pm
post #6180 of 8018
Quote:
Originally Posted by ostewart View Post
 

I A/B'd the TH-900 and TH-600, many will disagree with me and call it blasphemy but I prefer the overall sound and tonality of the TH-600. The TH-900 is superior in detail, high end extension and soundstage, but I prefer the fit of the TH-600 and more natural/full bodied sound of the TH-600. Also prefer the matte black of the TH-600, although the finish of the TH-900 is incredible and sexy.

 

 

 

Whats the difference between an TH-600 and an old Denon AH D7000?

Whats the difference between the earpads of the TH-600 and TH-900?

Sounds a D7000 better with TH-600 or TH-900 earpads too?

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