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Fostex TH900 Impressions & Discussion Thread - Page 109

post #1621 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

Hmm. How do you think the Grace m903 would do? 1.2 ohm output impedance on the headphones jacks. I do not see why it wouldn't do very well.


output impedance is not the sole criterion for determining an amp's bass drive and its synergy with headphones.  perhaps this review (altho referencing a diff. headphone) might alter your perception    http://www.head-fi.org/products/grace-design-m903-reference-headphone-amplifier-dac/reviews

 

but you shouldn't use head-fi reviews and commentary as your only guide.  if you can, try to get to a headphone meet & try the amp in question ... you might be happy with the results; perhaps not - only you can judge.


Edited by geetarman49 - 8/23/12 at 2:34pm
post #1622 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by geetarman49 View Post


output impedance is not the sole criterion for determining an amp's bass drive and its synergy with headphones.  perhaps this review (altho referencing a diff. headphone) might alter your perception    http://www.head-fi.org/products/grace-design-m903-reference-headphone-amplifier-dac/reviews

you might be happy with the results; perhaps not - best to try it and see.

Well, it's a $2000 investment to try and see. :P It would be awesome if any place around here actually carried high end headphones.

 

And there is also this regarding the m903: http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_DAC_Amp&document_srl=11864

 

Shows the Grace m903 being very very neutral. But I am honestly not certain how this translates into actual usage with the TH900 or whatever headphones I use. I am certainly happy with the results using my AD2000 and W5000. And the D7000 was pretty nice too, besides the comfort issues.

 

Whether I lost bass compared to other amps, I am not sure. I do not feel that I lost bass compared to the HA5000 or GS-1 when using either the AD2000 or W5000.


Edited by ZenErik - 8/23/12 at 2:23pm
post #1623 of 7582

Has anyone ever gotten their TH900s re cabled to a balanced cable?  Any different results in the sound?

post #1624 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

Has anyone ever gotten their TH900s re cabled to a balanced cable?  Any different results in the sound?

I wouldn't consider dismembering these phones unless you were not concerned about money at all.

I think trying different amps is best.

Just repeating what I said a while back, I get great results with a Rudistor RP010B, so I would suggest trialing a RPX35.

I also get fine results with Ray's B52, so maybe a cheaper RSA tubed amp would be nice based on this.

What I deduce from this is that the TH900s work well with an amp that is forgiving in the lower treble and has a nice controlled bass,

as that is what the B52 and RP010B sound like to me.

 

I thought impedance matching is only an issue if there is a stepped attenuator and lots of gain. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.)

post #1625 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

...

And there is also this regarding the m903: http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_DAC_Amp&document_srl=11864

 

Shows the Grace m903 being very very neutral. ...

the first graph shows response is drooping at the low-end and also at the hi-end ... it seems the designers are comfortable with the bandwidth limitations of this response; in kind the reviewer is comfortable with reporting the bandwidth of 40Hz - 15k, rather than the more customary 20 - 20k.  if this were a spkr amp, we'd have the bats flying out of their caves.

 

you profess to a desire for bass fulfillment in a system. well, so do i, & the last thing i would be looking for is an amp that is characterized as 'very very neutral'.   in this case, my interpretation is that its performance is leaning (at the least) toward bass-lite.  i think you need to seek opinions & recommendations for amps which support the bass response of phones like the th900, d7000, w5000, etc.

post #1626 of 7582

Without question, cables are significant to the sound. That said, the TH900's stock cable is excellent. So, IMO, swapping cables on the TH900 would strictly adhere to the laws of diminishing returns, if any, at this level.


Edited by lmswjm - 8/23/12 at 3:41pm
post #1627 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

...

 

I thought impedance matching is only an issue if there is a stepped attenuator and lots of gain. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.)

impedance matching is an issue when the impedance of the load approaches the (output) impedance of the amp.  as suggested elsewhere, a general rule-of-thumb is to maintain a ratio below 1:10  (amp:headphone).

post #1628 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by geetarman49 View Post

the first graph shows response is drooping at the low-end and also at the hi-end ... it seems the designers are comfortable with the bandwidth limitations of this response; in kind the reviewer is comfortable with reporting the bandwidth of 40Hz - 15k, rather than the more customary 20 - 20k.  if this were a spkr amp, we'd have the bats flying out of their caves.

 

you profess to a desire for bass fulfillment in a system. well, so do i, & the last thing i would be looking for is an amp that is characterized as 'very very neutral'.   in this case, my interpretation is that its performance is leaning (at the least) toward bass-lite.  i think you need to seek opinions & recommendations for amps which support the bass response of phones like the th900, d7000, w5000, etc.

Thank you for your input. A .2dB drop at 30Hz is not a big deal. Or almost .5dB at 20Hz. And on the high end at 20kHz it is around -.2dB as well. I don't see how this makes the amp bass light.

 

If the last thing YOU are looking for is a neutral amp, fine. I wanted a neutral amp and got it. I am not looking to add extra bass to my W5000 or AD2000. I am simply looking for another nice headphone with greater quantity in the bass region for when I feel like getting a little extra oomph in my electronic music. The TH900 looks like it may fit that criteria. The TH900 seemingly not having a major treble peak is a big plus. If the TH900 will not work well with my Grace m903 or if it will not give me the bass I desire the solution is easy. I will not buy it. That saves me a lot of money too.


Edited by ZenErik - 8/23/12 at 4:39pm
post #1629 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by geetarman49 View Post

impedance matching is an issue when the impedance of the load approaches the (output) impedance of the amp.  as suggested elsewhere, a general rule-of-thumb is to maintain a ratio below 1:10  (amp:headphone).

You are right. I have a low impedance input Threshold amplifiers (I think they are 1K ohms) and tried to use a Sonic Frontiers tube pre-amp with 300 ohms in the output and I was getting a buzz noise. As soon as I went to a 50 ohms output pre-amp the system got death quiet.

post #1630 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post
...
 I am simply looking for another nice headphone with greater quantity in the bass region for when I feel like getting a little extra oomph in my electronic music. The TH900 looks like it may fit that criteria. The TH900 seemingly not having a major treble peak is a big plus. If the TH900 will not work well with my Grace m903 or if it will not give me the bass I desire the solution is easy. I will not buy it. That saves me a lot of money too.

well then ... the solution is simple; only you can decide if its bass is sufficient when mated with your amp. you are in a major city - headphone meets should not be all that uncommon. bring your amp to the meet; i'm quite sure th900 will be in attendance along with many other phones.  otherwise, even if you buy it & decide it's not for you, it should not be all that difficult to re-sell given that it's a hot item right now & quantities appear to be limited.

post #1631 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by geetarman49 View Post

the first graph shows response is drooping at the low-end and also at the hi-end ... it seems the designers are comfortable with the bandwidth limitations of this response; in kind the reviewer is comfortable with reporting the bandwidth of 40Hz - 15k, rather than the more customary 20 - 20k.  if this were a spkr amp, we'd have the bats flying out of their caves.

 

you profess to a desire for bass fulfillment in a system. well, so do i, & the last thing i would be looking for is an amp that is characterized as 'very very neutral'.   in this case, my interpretation is that its performance is leaning (at the least) toward bass-lite.  i think you need to seek opinions & recommendations for amps which support the bass response of phones like the th900, d7000, w5000, etc.

TH900s are NOT bass light at all. Just goes to show you how measurements can be so misleading.

post #1632 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

TH900s are NOT bass light at all. Just goes to show you how measurements can be so misleading.

He is referring to my amp, the Grace m903. Check the Golden Ears link.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by geetarman49 View Post

well then ... the solution is simple; only you can decide if its bass is sufficient when mated with your amp. you are in a major city - headphone meets should not be all that uncommon. bring your amp to the meet; i'm quite sure th900 will be in attendance along with many other phones.  otherwise, even if you buy it & decide it's not for you, it should not be all that difficult to re-sell given that it's a hot item right now & quantities appear to be limited.

I don't see many Boston meets happening, unfortunately, but I will definitely see if something can be arranged.

post #1633 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

Well, it's a $2000 investment to try and see. :P It would be awesome if any place around here actually carried high end headphones.

 

Maybe see if The Cable Co. plans on adding the TH900 to their Headphone Lending Library? I'd also like to know how they sound with the m903.

post #1634 of 7582

Strange question but which one do you prefer the stax 4070 or the TH900 ?. This comparison is rather odd since it's estat to dynamic but I just want to know your opinion, which one get more of your headtime.  

The investment is kind of similar for me since I have the v200 for the TH 900 or I  have to buy the whole system if I go with stax. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

I love mine, they're one of my four main sets in rotation; STAX 4070s, O2 Mk1s, HE-6s, and TH900s. The rest are occasional things now.

Edited by xzobinx - 8/24/12 at 11:10am
post #1635 of 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by xzobinx View Post

Strange question but which one do you prefer the stax 4070 or the TH900 ?. This comparison is rather odd since it's closed to open and estat to dynamic but I just want to know your opinion, which one get more of your headtime.  

The investment is kind of similar for me since I have the v200 for the TH 900 or I  have to buy the whole system if I go with stax. 

The TH900 are closed aren't they? The 4070 are...

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