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Looking for some experienced advice on where best to invest my money next.

post #1 of 4
Thread Starter 

 

I've tried very hard to restrain myself from making, yet another, "please help me spend money, I'm clueless" thread.  Sadly this hobby is simply overwhelming to anyone who didn't study Sound Engineering or has spent years immersed in it.  I've been researching for over a month and just keep going around in circles.
 
I have a habit of rambling too long, if this looks intimidating, skip to the last paragraph. ;)
 
And sorry if this is in the wrong forum, something I'm always confused about.  I'm considering between purchasing a DAC/AMP/Music-Player/Headphone upgrades, this thread could technically fit in any forum.  I do suspect that DAC is my biggest issue, and the one I understand the least, so hopefully this is fine.
 
My situation:
 
I'm fortunate to have a job that allows me to listen to music all day while working at a computer, and I love being immersed in it.  That's 6-9 hours a day I'm wearing headphones, seems silly not to try and make that the most enjoyable experience possible.  About a year ago I dipped my toe into the waters of audiophilia with the pretty modest purchase of a pair of Denon AH-D2000's.  While a small investment by comparison around here, they were such a massive upgrade in both comfort and sound quality from my Audio-Technica ATH-ES7's I had grabbed on sale years ago.  But, I'm overdue to invest some more.
 
My issues:
 
Speaking from an entirely untrained ear, I've never heard anything higher quality than my Denons, or anything using an Amp or DAC beyond what comes pre-packaged with my pc's motherboards or Zune player.  I feel like I'm unsatisfied with the bass.  Not to say that I'm a bass-head and want it thumping over everything else, but I feel like it's not as enjoyable as it should be.  Bass guitars are my favorite instrument, I love every twang, pop and reverb.  I believe what I'm looking for is more control and depth in the low end.  The other "issue" is that think I'm experiencing ear-fatigue.  Maybe it's impossible to have a headset on your head for more than 4 hours without wanting to rip them off, it's hard for me to tell if this is physically because my ears are getting sweaty, or if it has something more to do with the audio levels (I don't usually listen too loud.)
 
My setup:
 
As I said earlier, I only have the Denon AH-D2000's so far.  I listen directly either from my Zune music player, or from the audio-out headphone jack on my work computer streaming Pandora.  On my Zune player I have a mix of formats, over 10,000 songs, about a quarter of them FLAC's ripped from CD's, half of them are 256-320k from Amazon MP3 downloads.  The rest are a mix of horrid bit rates from my younger, torrenting days that I'm slowly working on replacing.  I have Pandora One which still only streams at 192k.  From what I understand I'll need a DAC with both USB and Headphone out to work with both of these sources.
 
My music tastes:
 
It really runs the gamut what I listen to, but to give a sampling of the type of music I listen to the most, and would most like to be enhanced:
 
Red Hot Chili Peppers - "Higher Ground" (Great energy, great bass line, funky rock)
S.M.V - "Thunder" (I told you I love my bass, 3 Bass playing gods, one band)
Ben Harper - "Burn One Down" (Love the beautiful simplicity of an Acoustic Guitar with Hand Percussion)
TV on the Radio - "I was a Lover" (One of the few bands I could listen to for hours and not get bored, Guitars mixed with Electronic and atmospherics)
RJD2 - "Ghostwriter" (These kind of foot tapping beats without lyrics are great to work to, Hip Hop beats mixed with Electronic)
Down to the Bone - "Staten Island Groove" (Also have a passion for funky, smooth Jazz)
DeVotchKa - "How it Ends" (Down tempo, melodic, moving music.)
 
I've got to stop there, spending way too much time trying to find all the different music that represents what I listen to on a daily basis.  The stuff I didn't get to though is actually probably what I listen to the most, sort of electronic, down-tempo grooves with hip hop beats.  Stuff that keeps me movin' and groovin' at work.  Like all the Buddha Bar stuff.
 
My limitations:
 
So... here's where I'm at, I'm ready to plop down $300 or so on my next upgrade to improve my listening experience.  A big part of me has almost been tempted to just wait another month and get the D100 which would possibly be all that I need for a long time... but I'm reluctant to have something that big and expensive that I'll be leaving at work where there's late night cleanup crews and such, and the building is open 24/7.  If something for <$300 got stolen, I could shrug that off a little easier.  While it doesn't need to be portable, I'd prefer it didn't take up too much desk real-estate, and was easy to bring home on occasion.  
 
Options:
 
The options I've sort of narrowed it down to:
 
  • Matrix M-Stage - I've heard multiple times this Amp is amazing for the cost, and right in my price range.  I was set to buy this a few weeks ago until I realized that it might not be a very noticeable improvement with my headphones that are more likely being limited more by not having a quality DAC? If that's the case and I went for a DAC now, an M-Stage would likely be my next purchase a few months from now, unless there is something that would fit my needs better.

 

  • Matrix Cube - I was ready to pull the trigger on this this weekend because it seemed like everything I'll need in one package, but I'm still hesitating.  It seems like a great option for both DAC and built in Amp, something that could possibly hold me off for a while and maybe get an M-Stage later in the year to compliment it.  That ends up being over $600, and multiple units though.  I'm unsure if the amp in the Cube is more than sufficient for what I need, or if the DAC is worth getting the unit as a stand-alone if I do upgrade the AMP.

 

  • Markl Mod upgrade - I originally went with the Denon AHD2000's, because it was an attractive upgrade price, and I knew that I could invest an additional $200 at Lawton Audio down the line to be tuned for better sound, better pads and a deluxe plug.  I was originally planning on doing this first, but as I've researched, I have a feeling I wouldn't even be able to notice the difference much if I'm not even getting quality audio from my source.

 

  • Sennheiser 650 - I don't regret my purchase of the Denons, but part of me second guesses if my headphones are a limiting factor.  From what I understand, the D2000's have the same inner-workings as their flagship D7000's.  If that's true then there is plenty of potential in these phones to be harnessed, I would think.  The article at headphonia just had me worrying as they point at the obvious that you could invest hundreds in Amps/DAC's, but if your phones aren't up to snuff you won't even notice.

 

  • Sansa Fuze/Clip+ or Cowon's or SFLO2 with LOD - It's possibly that music player itself could be holding me back, my 80gb, early generation Zune player doesn't have a compatible LOD output.  I'm not sure how much that lack of a clean signal makes a difference in the end.  Probably something I'm going to want to do at some point anyway since Zune still doesn't support FLAC.  I understand some of these new players have much better built in DAC's, since I'm looking at an at-work solution, maybe just a better player followed by an amp would be sufficient for my needs?
 
There's tons of budget upgrades out there that I keep running into, the attractive Fiio e17, uDAC 2, etc.
 
SUMMARY/CONCLUSION:
 
So to wrap this all up... I have a pair of Denon AHD-2000's, and I'm looking to spend around $300 to improve my listening experience at work, I'd be willing to go as far as an additional $200 next month or two, but $500 is probably my hard cap for investing in my work listening environment.  I guess I'm just wondering where I'd be best off investing.  Is my old-generation Zune without a clean LOD holding me back to begin with? If not, should I just purchase the Matrix Cube now, and possibly invest in the Markl Mod upgrade on my Denons later in the year and that would be plenty for a mid-range, aspiring-audiophile? Would it make sense to aim for the Matric Cube > M-Stage combo, or save up and and go straight for the Yulong D100?
 
My main reason for making this thread was for assurance that I'm making a smart choice from someone more experienced.  I understand that you can invest hundreds in this hobby and one bad link could make those upgrades barely detectable.
 
Much appreciation to anyone who takes the time to skim through this thread and offer some experienced suggestions!
post #2 of 4

You could not use Sennheiser HD650s with your setup (they need an amp), and in theory, an amp would help your Denon's as well.

 

Quote:
they point at the obvious that you could invest hundreds in Amps/DAC's, but if your phones aren't up to snuff you won't even notice.

 

and vice versa, which is your situation, I think.

 

So, an amp, a DAC or a DAC/amp.

 

There are a number of possible choices:

 

HRT

Nuforce

Audioengine

Audinst

Fiio

 

and the site you mentioned (headfonia) has good suggestions (whereas this site likes and hates every product, so is great for information, but less so for judging between products).

 

 

etc.


Edited by kstuart - 2/12/12 at 8:58pm
post #3 of 4
Thread Starter 

Thanks for replying kstuart! I appreciate you actually getting to the bottom of it.

 

I'm aware of the choices, I've been reading these forums daily for the past 6 weeks or so, and I've read a lot on headphonia.  I have a good idea of every product that interests me in every area... the part I'm lost at is what's most important to upgrade first?

 

Are the HD650's enough of an improvement over my D2000's to put off buying a DAC/AMP for a year to get them?

If not, will a DAC and AMP be limited by the old Zune I'm mostly listening off of?

 

Just feels like whenever I'm set to purchase something, I start second-guessing it and wondering if I should get something else first instead.

 

6 weeks ago I was set to just send my Denons in for a Markl Mod.  Then I kind of realized that might not be very noticeable until I get good equipment.  Then I was all set to buy an AMP, was about to buy an M-Stage in the used forums and then I read someone say that Denons would probably benefit more from a DAC than an AMP.  So then I back-pedaled and started looking into DAC's, and then I started looking at DAC/AMP combo's which seemed like a good entry-level option, and then just today I skimmed through Portable Rig thread and noticed that everyone was using Cowons or Sansa's with LOD adapters, and now I'm wondering if my outdated DAP is limiting me from the start.

 

That's where I'm lost.  I'm not sure where best to spread out my available spending cash to get a well rounded listening setup that isn't limited by any one component.  I don't quite understand all the technical jargon.

post #4 of 4

 

Quote:

Are the HD650's enough of an improvement over my D2000's to put off buying a DAC/AMP for a year to get them?

Just from what I have read (I don't have either headphones), the HD650 would not work very well without an amp, period, and b) the D2000's are by far the best part of your system, and are considered top quality.   Read the reviews on Amazon.com on the AH-D2000 - one guy says "My previous favorite, the AKG K701 (another $300 headphone) was my previous reference quality headphone but this headphone supercedes it. Whereas the AKG sounded more analytical and exacting, this Denon sounds more fluid and dynamic." K701 is generally considered equivalent to HD650 (headfonia has a review comparing K701, HD650 and BT880 as roughly equivalent.)

 

Quote:

If not, will a DAC and AMP be limited by the old Zune I'm mostly listening off of?


That is where you need someone who is familiar with your Zune.  (BTW, at one point, you say "Zune still doesn't support FLAC" but farther up you say you have FLAC on your Zune?)

 

If you don't have a digital output from the Zune, then you can't use a DAC.  The Denons are 25ohm, so they don't need an amp as much as other headphones with higher impedance (and in fact, one Amazon reviewer has the HD650 at home, and uses his AH-D2000 out of his Zune at work for just that reason)..

 

Quote:
From what I understand I'll need a DAC with both USB and Headphone out to work with both of these sources.

You are either misspeaking, or a little confused.  A DAC-AMP combo has digital (usually USB) input and Headphone output.  A DAC by itself (like the MusicStreamer II) has digital (usually USB) input and analog Line output (usually "RCA" jacks).

 

Unless Pandora has some sort of special DRM, you can output from that through any digital output to a DAC.

 

Note: if you can summarize your setup and your problem very briefly, you can post it to Q&A at headfonia.com and get a more expert answer - they actually respond to most of the questions

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