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AKG K702 Vs Beyerdynamic T1 in the studio. - Page 3

post #31 of 67

T1's have too much bass? Bollocks! I find the T1 to be more neutral across the band than the K702 is. The K702 is horribly colored to sound "neutral". That's why I always say it sounds forced. They are nice headphones, I enjoyed them, but they are not accurate. The bass is less than neutral, the mids are a tad shallow, and the treble is overly pronounced. They need a lot of fixed to be called neutral. The mids themselves have a strange coloration that makes them sound fake. About the bass, it rolls off early, and that isn't realistic at all.

 

Acix, I can't believe you think the T1 has more treble then the K702. The K702 is far more peaky and strident in the treble than the T1 is. In fatc the K702 treble is boosted beyond neutral and the boost is not needed. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Only a K701 fan would say that the T1's have too much bass. tongue.gif You might want to tell those who accuse them of having too little. IMO the K701's lack of any real bass is one of their major flaws. As pointed out by moniker "A" below, the bass/sub bass performance of the K701s does leave one wanting for more true to life bass.

 

As well, the 10kHz spike is quite a bit tighter and occurs at a range in the frequency spectrum where not much is going on, so its not anywhere as big an issue as the K701 treble spike that kicks in at around 6kHz and lasts until about 10kHz. I find this much more of a colouration and obtrusive to what's really going on in the recording.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


And the tin like treble on the DT880/600s is what killed them for me. The K701s are just a too lacking for me in many areas to consider as even a viable mid-fi solution IME. Funny how we all have different opinions of "neutral". tongue.gif

 

There's only like a 1 dB difference between the DT880s and T1s with regards to bass impact (hard to tell...I know, it was tough when I had them both for a few months). But the K701s are more like 5dB.

 

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2621&graphID[]=2033&graphID[]=2751



 

 

post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

T1's have too much bass? Bollocks! I find the T1 to be more neutral across the band than the K702 is. The K702 is horribly colored to sound "neutral". That's why I always say it sounds forced.

 

Then why is it easier to master tracks with the K70x than it is with the T1?

post #33 of 67
I'm not an audio professional, but I suspect the best headphones to mix with are the ones that are reasonably balanced and the mixer is most familiar with. That allows someone to create a mix on those headphones that is most consistent with other mixes.
post #34 of 67

Better to attenuate frequencies than boost. It looks like the T1 would be easier to smooth with an EQ than the x70x (ignoring Fletcher-Munson curves); though, I would never take those FR graphs as gospel.

 

Never heard a T1, but the presentation of the AKG x70x I own seems... artificial to me somehow. The beyers I have are more... intimate.

 

Regardless, good-natured disagreement is fair, but I would hate to attack or discredit the OP's opinion and discourage others from sharing reviews. gs1000.gif

post #35 of 67

Don't know man, I never mixed audio on headphones. The K702 might be better for tracking because of it's treble and weaker bass. 

 

I'm just stating my opinion on the matter. Just not agreeing with Acix is all. I tend to blow things up more than they needed to.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

 

Then why is it easier to master tracks with the K70x than it is with the T1?

 

 

post #36 of 67

I myself was together at his studio to check and compare our equipment I was really surprised to hear how good the K701 sounded against the t1

ok the t1 has more bass and more bright but with some listening  time also the k701 had a good definition not less than the t1 and the sound stage  was was  a little bigger than the t1's

there were not black and white differences but they were differences and not dramatic

with electronic music and the phonitor sounded very similar almost identical

i can said in this opportunity that  i plugged the ti's in the phonitor they sounded better than on my own made amp here they were some subtle sound differences but my amp was a very good

opponent against the pro phonitor amplifier Acix said that was surprised of the sound quality  of my amp that was a nice  thing to know ,Mr Acix has a very trained ear (needed for his mastering works) and if he said that sounded good i will not said a word against

here is the place to thank Acix  for his time to check and  compare our equipments

 

 

 

post #37 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

T1's have too much bass? Bollocks! I find the T1 to be more neutral across the band than the K702 is. The K702 is horribly colored to sound "neutral". That's why I always say it sounds forced. They are nice headphones, I enjoyed them, but they are not accurate. The bass is less than neutral, the mids are a tad shallow, and the treble is overly pronounced. They need a lot of fixed to be called neutral. The mids themselves have a strange coloration that makes them sound fake. About the bass, it rolls off early, and that isn't realistic at all.

 

Acix, I can't believe you think the T1 has more treble then the K702. The K702 is far more peaky and strident in the treble than the T1 is. In fatc the K702 treble is boosted beyond neutral and the boost is not needed. 
 

 



 

 

 

Yes, the T1 have more treble compare to the K702, especially if your music have information around 8 khz @ the T1 treble spike. The Beyer spike is boosted by 5 db compare to the K702, and this is audible. For me the T1 spike was more pronounced with electronic music...exactly as the headroom graph measurements. 

 

The more balanced sounds will be the one that stay more around the 0db line.

 

As you can see in the graph, the green line show early and deeper treble roll-of of the K702.

 

graphCompare 880.PNG

 

 

post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Its funny. I was very close to buying a T1 from another Head-Fier, but couldn't justify the price and wanted something a little smoother in treble for longer sessions, so I went with the Q701.
They're most definitely not what I like out of my main can (I prefer a fun signature), but they are fantastic as my complimentary can that is different from my D7000. I really got them for gaming and TV shows, but they have surprised me with how damn good they sound for music, so they will get headtime for that as well.
I do wish I had the T1s, but with the Q701, it made it less of a priority, and something I can hold off on.

This, all of this. I was in the same boat with the T1, but got a pair of Q701s and can't stop listening to them. Very clean and surprisingly musical for neutral cans. I have D7000s too and I think I've now found a great counter to their lush presentation.
post #39 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by baritone View Post

I myself was together at his studio to check and compare our equipment I was really surprised to hear how good the K701 sounded against the t1

ok the t1 has more bass and more bright but with some listening  time also the k701 had a good definition not less than the t1 and the sound stage  was was  a little bigger than the t1's

there were not black and white differences but they were differences and not dramatic

with electronic music and the phonitor sounded very similar almost identical

i can said in this opportunity that  i plugged the ti's in the phonitor they sounded better than on my own made amp here they were some subtle sound differences but my amp was a very good

opponent against the pro phonitor amplifier Acix said that was surprised of the sound quality  of my amp that was a nice  thing to know ,Mr Acix has a very trained ear (needed for his mastering works) and if he said that sounded good i will not said a word against

here is the place to thank Acix  for his time to check and  compare our equipments

 

 

 


 


Thanks Bar for this opportunity to check out your equipment...I was so glad to hear your amazing hps amp, and especially how is stood up against the mighty Phonitor. I think you spot on with this amp because is so balanced and natural, and I'm definitely agree with you about your observations.

 

I have to admit here... about Bar prototype hps amp, this amazing amp was about 80% of the Phonitor with acoustic music, and about 85-90% with full body electronic music. In my point of view this amp is the second best SS amp after the Phonitor, and I'm sure most of the members here will even chose Bar amp over the Phonitor (and yes, cost effective as well ). Bar hps amp use the N5532 op-amps, and yet is way more balanced and natural compare the V100.

 

Bar, can I post your amp photo?

 

 

post #40 of 67

For pro use, as long as you know what your props (and you) are doing then that's fine. Neutrality is a point, but getting used to your props is much more important; since all equipment color the sound in some way, the ability to "translate" is more important. Think you gonna know how your work is being presented by your props, and while dozens of guys using something else which would color your tracks in dozens of ways. For T1, remember that it would hint the treble a bit more with bass compensation (from hearing speaker).

 

Neverthess, it's like comparing a Leica to a Canon, which both are solid good. You can always compare the techs and figures, but it's always the final outcome which determines how great an artist you are.

post #41 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfredWong View Post

For pro use, as long as you know what your props (and you) are doing then that's fine. Neutrality is a point, but getting used to your props is much more important; since all equipment color the sound in some way, the ability to "translate" is more important. Think you gonna know how your work is being presented by your props, and while dozens of guys using something else which would color your tracks in dozens of ways. For T1, remember that it would hint the treble a bit more with bass compensation (from hearing speaker).

 

Neverthess, it's like comparing a Leica to a Canon, which both are solid good. You can always compare the techs and figures, but it's always the final outcome which determines how great an artist you are.



As some mentioned in the early post the differences are not black and white, and maybe with the AKG Q series those differences will be less. This session my sound experience was as the headroom graphs show.

 

BTW, are you Alfred Wong from, http://www.alfredsmind.ca/

post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post



As some mentioned in the early post the differences are not black and white, and maybe with the AKG Q series those differences will be less. This session my sound experience was as the headroom graphs show.

 

BTW, are you Alfred Wong from, http://www.alfredsmind.ca/


There's a no real name policy. So, no.smily_headphones1.gif

 

post #43 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfredWong View Post


There's a no real name policy. So, no.smily_headphones1.gif

 



Okay, thanks. smile.gif

post #44 of 67

I still disagree about the T1 having more treble, is anything they have less than the K702.  I won't argue about the spike with music because most modern music does sound bright with all the compression, loudness, and the track just being mastered "hot". I never go by graphs as they can be wrong. They can make you think a headphone sounds different, when the headphone in reality does not even sound as the graph suggests.

 

If we were to go by your graph it wouldn't be fair as you used a DT880 anyways, not the T1. But as I said, graphs can be wrong, so I don't trust them.

 

Wasn't trying to bash you earlier in the other post, it's just I don't hear what you were describing with the T1 being brighter. So I hope it didn't seem like an attack or anything.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post

Yes, the T1 have more treble compare to the K702, especially if your music have information around 8 khz @ the T1 treble spike. The Beyer spike is boosted by 5 db compare to the K702, and this is audible. For me the T1 spike was more pronounced with electronic music...exactly as the headroom graph measurements. 

 

The more balanced sounds will be the one that stay more around the 0db line.

 

As you can see in the graph, the green line show early and deeper treble roll-of of the K702.

 

graphCompare 880.PNG

 

 



 

 

post #45 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

I still disagree about the T1 having more treble, is anything they have less than the K702.  I won't argue about the spike with music because most modern music does sound bright with all the compression, loudness, and the track just being mastered "hot". I never go by graphs as they can be wrong. They can make you think a headphone sounds different, when the headphone in reality does not even sound as the graph suggests.

 

If we were to go by your graph it wouldn't be fair as you used a DT880 anyways, not the T1. But as I said, graphs can be wrong, so I don't trust them.

 

Wasn't trying to bash you earlier in the other post, it's just I don't hear what you were describing with the T1 being brighter. So I hope it didn't seem like an attack or anything.

 



 

 


 

The T1 are not so brighter, they just have this spike that show in the graph and is audible ...is easy to spot the spike with electronic music, bring more sparkly treble to the hi-hats/ride/splash/crash. As you know with electronic music the hi-hats section worked hard and bring a lot of energy up, some annoying 909 house music bring this into your face.

 

With a hot master the spike will be double because master will add a few more db's over the spike dbs, so eventually the same spike with 6dbs over will get around 11-12dbs over the 0db into the red zone (and this in case the master engineer was gentle and sensitive).


Most of the pop music have a hot mastering especially around the 8 khz, just to keep the energy up and running.

 

BTW, why do you think the graph is wrong about the spike if is audible?

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