Very specific headphone tailored to electronic music. Ultrasone XXX, DT880, HD650, DT990 on a...

I hope this is a unique enough need to warrant the new thread and help of all you audiophile overlords.  

This is my first post here though I've been a lurker for a little while.  I've mainly been looking up threads on headphones for trance music, which is my favorite genre--more specifically uplifting trance.  If hifi-er's were ever considered snobs--trust me, it's nothing compared to the pretentious trance geeks (nerds would be too cool of a term for the bunch) who are still stuck on a bad pill that ruined their rave experience in the 90s.  What's worse is that among these trance listeners in their self-ostracized habitat, it's like finding a needle in a haystack trying to find someone anyone who cares much less knows the first thing about hifi.  

I won't pretend to be a real audiophile.  My first jaw-dropping experience happened when I listened to a pair of Ultimate Ears Triplefi 10's, which I use these days almost exclusively and handles my favorite genre of music quite well.  I use them to study and shut out outside noise, but they get uncomfortable after a few hours.  I find the bass to be quite sufficient, especially with the Comply tips.  Since my introduction to the triplefis 3-4 years ago, I feel like I've become more and more keen to sound quality, detail, and signature, etc.  

I was told by more than a couple people in these trance forums very quickly, that an audiophile doesn't listen to trance.  Correct me if you think I'm clueless, but I find trance to be one of the most emotional type of music there is.  It has the ability to completely lift one's mood and evoke a rush of sensation/adrenaline/seratonin/emotions.  My experience listening to trance has been absolutely enhanced by triplefi 10s, and I look forward to enjoying better and better equipment as the wallet and wife will allow.   I made a nice list here of the type of trance I listen to, which I think many of you would enjoy right off the bat.  

http://www.listology.com/dochyo/list/connoisseurs-real-trance-musicprepare-have-your-mind-blown-o-o-o

Here is just one of my favorites from the list.

DK Project - Recover (Soundlift mix) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YtXL2IYSlk   You must at least listen to the breakdown and melody of this one..............!

So, this is the type of music I'll be listening to day in day out.  I particularly enjoy the clarity and separation I hear in the mids and highs of the triple-fis.  Even without Comply ear foams, I feel the bass is sufficient.  I *think* that I would enjoy a wide soundstage, but I could be wrong about this...  I fear an open can could lack some punchiness...

I've read great things about the Ultrasones--particularly the HFi 580 but fear they may have too much bass for me.  It's not really bass that I dislike--but for example, today I demoed 3 headphones at Guitar Center. 

Plantronics HD380Pro - retail $200    -   terrifically unspectacular.  Pretty clear sound, but nothing special in any regard in my opinion.  Pass.

Beyerdynamic DT 770 (80ohm) - retail $200    - i was impressed with them until I put on the 880s...  They sounded too bassy and the mids/highs seemed muted/recessed as a result of the bass.  My friend who is into rock liked these more than the 880s.  I didn't need an amplifier with my smartphone if I had the volume up on almost max.  

Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250ohm) - retail $330   - I was floored by these headphones.  first of all, too expensive for my blood at the moment.  It also needed an amplifier with my smartphone even at max volume, but not the iPad.   The bass was plenty sufficient and tight for me and I've read it can be better with amplification.  The clarity and separation of the mids and highs were better than the triplefi 10's I thought, but more importantly they sounded welcoming and warm while also sounding very bright, clear and separated.  I later read in reviews how similar this is to the HD650 (open).  

For my tailored headphone, am I looking more for a can that sounds like the DT 880 (semi-open) or a particular Ultrasone?

====

It seems like most other people looking for a trance can, were wanting more bassy headphones.  If it's gonna be bassy like the Beyerdynamic 770 at the expense of mids and highs, then I don't want it.  What Ultrasone model would be most comparable to the Beyerdynamic 880?  Pro/HFi?  How close will it be and is it any more suited for my music?  Judging from this thread, I have a feeling the the 990s are going to be more close to the 770s...too bassy, less neutral, & possibly too bright (doubtful).

I've read quite a bit on the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro (250ohm).  Is this the model that is being praised, or is it the non-Pro.  

http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Open-Studio-Headphones-Ohms/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328942447&sr=1-3  The 990 Pro is only $185...was $200 at guitar center.  Looks like other threads are recommending the 600ohm, but I need not look there.  Can't afford an expensive amplifier.  At best, for now I'll be getting maybe an E6 or E7 fiio amp.

I'm open to other suggestions, including save for the 880...or get a cheaper can for now to tide me over.  My friend's Panasonic RP HTF-890 is quite good with large soundstage and good clarity in highs and mids...only $40.  I've before mulled over the Audio Technica ATH-M50, Grado SR60i...Porta Pro's.... :P 

My sincere thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by alv4426 

I like a few of the songs you have on your list and I got to say it sounds like you have a similar taste in headphones as me. I would say to just save up and get the DT880 AND an amp since no Beyer model other than maybe some of the pro models is fine without one. They sound completely different from HD650 (haven't heard them but have read a lot about them)  and Ultrasones (ultras are very unique sounding and thus polar reactions to them are common; you either love them or hate them). Hd650 are supposed to be pretty laid back and much warmer  and to me Ultrasones actually sound like TF10s but with much more piercing highs and detail. 

Hmm...well I'm sure in the distant future I'll have a good amp.  But is it worth waiting that long in order to get a 600/250 ohm dt880?  Do you think I'd be much less impressed if I caved and got the 32ohm soon?  Not sure if even more piercing than TF10 would be ideal for me.  May take away a little from the enjoyment of listening.  this helps a lot, thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggawhat 

Connoisseurs of real trance? Son, this is real trance (aint no blaring supersaws and cliche uplift here):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plEmI12KoME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SGH_ZwGcZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_j4To4orU
This is pure trance:
http://www.listology.com/list/top-200-trance-songs
http://www.listology.com/list/top-400-trance-tracks-all-time
Ishkur knows whats up: http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/
I'm being a bit of a d.ouche, enjoy your music, it's decent, but I just have beef because people forget where trance started and what trance was about from the get - it was never about putting your hands in the air as a euphoric supersaw melody plays. It was about a progressive, repetitive, techno-based hypnotic sound. That's what I consider pure trance and I think its a shame that a lot of these new tranceheads in the scene who pray to Armin van Buuren have no idea where trance came from.
Anthem/euphoric/uplift is the reason why people like Sasha, John Digweed, Nick Warren, and others ditched the trance scene in the late 90s. It was becoming stale and cliche. Nowadays it's becoming commercial and cheesey on top of that, I half-respect the uplift trance because it's not the cheese fest that trance is today.
If you're genuinely interested I think the best way to learn about the kind of trance that people like myself and 'darktremor' are passionate about is to watch this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7428851501542847413

no worries, it'll probably never be about just repetitive, techno-based hypnotic for me....  Also, there are plenty of people in the "real trance community" who think darktremor (the self-admittedly bi-polar clown who came up with the top 400 list) is a joke.  I'm already impressed with how markedly less elitist headfi-ers seem to be than they are..  Anyway, most of the songs on my list I don't think are very commercial (I dunno about Europe, but you don't hear this stuff in the US on the radio or clubs at all) and there are plenty more cheesy tracks than this--especially ones that have vocals mixed in.  You'll also notice that the uplifting tracks have a lot of progressive elements in them--and I dare say Anjunabeach by A&B is all progressive...probably my #1 or #2 fav.  Anyway, you seem like a much more reasonable person and I can appreciate that it pains you to see that the music that you loved at one point has drastically changed and become adulterated.  It's like me and watching tennis.  I think a lot of the commercial stuff/worshiping armin/tiesto is silly as well.  I also think, though, that back in the 90's a lot more people were doing e and classic, repetitive, what could be now called boring songs were playing.  There's a lot of old stuff that I like and you'll find a few songs that made it on my favorites list in case you ever do feel like feeling the cheesy soaring feeling which may be at least sometimes the best way to enjoy your hifi headphones from time to time :)

I'll check out your other lists.  I'm not that closed to change, and so you know I first got into the older trance but currently enjoy the uplifting the most..maybe it's a phase.  It has never been about techno for me, however....the only techno song I still like is Children and only liked a couple techno songs before I discovered trance.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorbidToaster 

On Trance: BT. That is all.

 

On Headphones: Do you want the bass to hit really hard? If so I'd stick to something closed. If not the HD 650 is probably a good choice.

BT = ?   honestly, i do think either the 880 or 650 would be a wonderful choice for me, but at this point I can't see myself spending around $300+  I don't mind bass as long as it doesn't encroach  on mids and highs, like i felt it did on the DT 770s.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by drews 

Sony MDR-SA5000, they are great for trance especially if you don't need boomy bass.  They are fast, detailed, comfortable, nicely built and involving.  I miss my pair even though I own much pricier cans (LCD2, T1, w3000ANV, w1000x, D7000).  

 

Drew

thanks.  these are much too expensive for me...i'll look into used options..  I think I would enjoy them as well, and indeed I do not need boomy bass at all :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggawhat 

Quote:

the only techno song I still like is Children and only liked a couple techno songs before I discovered trance.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! C'mon man Children ain't techno! Children is dream house, and it's OK track, but it's on the cheesy side and I need my music to have a rough edge. I do listen to house as well, but there's sort of a difference between house music and cheese that I can't quit explain, its just something genuinely soulful about house music. My favorite house track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij3JVnb-uhw).
Anyways techno 101:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQfKFwa-jEY Joey Beltram - Energy Flash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gd-QkRA8Ik Orbital - Chime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0oMwKnU3OM Underworld - Rez

Quote:

I agree that it's a close second for me, but 'These Hopeful Machines' is my favorite album of all time. He just nailed everything I would ever want in an album pretty much.

To me This Binary Universe is "These Hopeful Machines" minus cheesey vocals.

sorry.  i can't say i ever liked techno, then.  what i guess i liked was one dream house (dream trance is how another guy corrected me).  I've never been into house, either, but I will give the 4 tracks you suggested a listen.  

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggawhat 

Don't want to get too far off topic, but BT is a jack of all trades. He's done "pure trance", he's done progressive, he's done uplifting trance, he's done anthem/epic trance, he's done pop music, and now he's doing cheesey music too.
Armin van Buuren will never be as good as BT. YEAHHH BOY I said it. BT is a producer at heart and Armin is clearly a DJ at heart. BT's talent is just evident on everything he produces, while Armin's productions just lack the kind of polish that BT has on his records. P.S. By Armin's productions I mean Benno de Goeij's productions
"This Binary Universe" - its not really trance per se, but it's clearly his best album by a mile IMO. I like his IMA/ESCM sound more than I like his new stuff but I own his newest album anyways.
Anyways I listen to trance, and even a little bit of the kind of trance you like OP, and D2000 is the headphone that I just bought yesterday. We'll see how this purchase goes.

I'll look into BT for sure.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's better than Armin...  He apparently admitted he was never even learned music.  at least Above and Beyond has a pretty creative pianist in the group.  Please update with your thoughts on the D2000.  I've read good things about it in other forums, but i consider it outside my price range.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich 

Not to get into a music-snob debate, but the music you linked (and some of the other artists mentioned here) is quite enjoyable on the following from my zoo:

 

- AKG K701

- Sony MDR-SA5000

- Sennheiser HD 580 (older version of the 650)

 

 

None of those are closed, and none of them will provide any isolation from outside noises, I would also never dream of taking any of them outdoors/mobile (they all strike me as too fragile for one reason or another). One of them outright requires an amplifier (which it conveniently includes), the other three should have something better than a phone to drive them. 

 

If you need isolation and mobility, that becomes a bit of a question. The only thing I'm thinking of is the Beyerdynamic T70 (the T70p would probably be a better choice, given that you mentioned a phone - there is a 32 ohm version of the DT880 as well (but remember, the DT880 is also open, just like the above), designed for mobile use (just like the T70p - and no, it isn't called "DT880p" - that would make too much sense )); it has a similar HF bump like the SA5000, and fairly tight bass (like everything mentioned above) - it also isolates very well and comes with a travel bag. Downside is, depending on the time of the month, they can run up near $600. If that doesn't work for you (in other words, the budget has to come down), you might look at the Denon D2000 - the mids aren't as perfect, and the bass is boomier, but they cost less, are very comfortable, and will drive from mobile devices. Reportedly more fragile though (I had no issues with them for nearly two years, but apparently a lot of people have, and I don't want to downplay the relevance of those complaints). They don't really isolate, but they won't leak like an open headphone. And yes I'm suggesting them over the Kenwood KH-K1000 (if you dig up my posting history, I usually champion the K1000 over anything from Denon) - this is one area the Kenwood really are ill suited for (yes they have more bass, yes they isolate better, and yes they will trip over their own feet trying to do what any other headphone mentioned in this thread should accomplish swimmingly - they're smooth'n'slow, not fast'n'snappy). 

 

Finally, if ALL of those are beyond your budget, the Ultrasone HFI-2400 (which is open) would be my next suggestion - they have more bass than anything I've mentioned (this is not a joke), and the mids are pulled back compared to basically everything I've mentioned (they may actually align nicely with the D2000; I haven't ever compared those two directly), but they just sound good; especially if you aren't comparing them to anything else. They do a good job at injecting space into recordings, and they can drive a bassline without falling apart. They also do a good job with videogames and movies. Accurate and analytical they are not; fun and happy they are. Apparently the PRO900 is a better pick for EDM/dance/trance/whatever - it's one I haven't heard though. Sometimes they go on sale for around $300 (which is between most of what I'm suggesting to you and the HFI-2400s) - so it might be worth a shot. They're also closed, so that's a plus too. 

 

If you're using these at home and can deal with the leakage, I'd certainly consider an open headphone - while the T70 may be competitive, consider that at $400-$600 they're competitive with $200-$400 open headphones. I don't know about the PRO900; I avoid things that are marked for "bassheads" (the HFI-2400 was a happy mistake, I didn't end up keeping them, but they weren't unpleasant). If you're really on a budget, try the Ultrasone out - otherwise keep saving your pennies. 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorbidToaster 

How much are you looking to spend? Did I miss that in the OP?

 

BT is an Epic Trance producer among other genres, but either way the 650 is more fun than the 880 I thought. Either one needs a decent amp though IMO.
 

 

well, I may either just go with Panasonic HTF600 ($30) to hold me over until I take a big plunge with something like the 650/880 with decent amp....  or, go with something that's like $160 right now....but that would have to hold me over for a longer period of time...   actually, when I get into dent school...I'm gonna take a very big plunge......and it'll be gladly paid for and approved of by the wife :D  

I avoid stuff marked for "bassheads" as well.  I think I like really neutral balance... I've asked the guy who recommended to me specifically the HTF600 what I should shoot for for my next upgrade (probably for 5-10 years).  What do you think it should be?  Is it the DT880 which Iiked so much?  I suppose if the HTF600's end up not being capable of tiding me over for a year or so, then I may exchange them for a set of ultrasone for $160-200 like you suggested, or go up to a DT880 (will look into the D70) 32ohm....or get a relatively cheap amplifier like the fiio E8 or E11 for the 250ohm version.  for mobile mobile use, I always have my Triplefi 10's.  But most of the time I'll be using my phone to listen to music.  Open cans are ok because I can just go to a secluded part of the library :)