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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 316

post #4726 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

 

I found that the Touch 5G had the best USB Audio implementation. Its internal DAC and Amp are superior to the other devices when used standalone or with an external Amp (double amping). Once connected to an external DAC the differences using the same software with the same DAC/Amp combinations were minimal. IMO Neutron MP was the best. gMusic2 (plays Google Cloud and All Access) was better than Google's Player software in both SQ and UI.

I found all of the Android devices screamed for help as their internal Amps were nothing to write home about. Since they don't have line outs (or any good line outs) the quality of their DACs are hard to evaluate since they pass through unimpressive amps. The GS3 is capable of line out via a special USB cable, unfortunately it's noisey. 

I much prefer Android to iOS, but for a DAP only use, this is not an issue. Although Apple has much better hardware for the Touch 5G as well as a better USB Audio implementation, based upon conversations that I've had with someone that writes DAP software on iOS, they did not do a good job of allowing the sharing music files between applications. But, it can be done. Until this is done, locally downloaded music files from Google using either Google Play Music or gMusic2 are duplicated in different areas, wasting space on the SSD.

 

I don't quite understand your logic.

 

MP3 aside, can you please specify what types of music files did you try to play? I.e. did you test higher resolution music files with BD/SR above 16bit/44.1kHz?

 

And finally, why do you conclude that Touch 5G has the best USB Audio implementation by claiming that its internal DAC/Amp is the best?

 

I don't argue this statement about internal DAC/Amp, all I am saying that the internal DAC/Amp have absolutely nothing to do with USB audio implementation, as they are totally bypassed...

 

And then, we're left with all the stupid Apple things like no SD card support, iTunes nightmare to put music into the device, etc.

 

There have to be very solid reasons to claim iPod has the best USB Audio implementation... Oh, and can you please also tell us what current allowance does the iPod touch have, when you connect an external device to it?

post #4727 of 5360

I have a rooted android galaxy S4 (i9505 with 4.4.2), also installed are UAPP and UARP.

Recently I purchased the GeekOut DAC (450mw), which works fine with my windows PC's USB ports.

 

I did discover that when connecting the Geek DAC to my S4, directly via an OTG cable, the earphones (tested several) get extremly warm to the point of endangaring them. Using a Y split OTG cable and feeding the Geek with a 5 volt external battery, also heaqts the earphones.

 

Today I had purchased a Self Powered USB HUB which is fed via a wall connected power source. Connecting the S4 to the HUB's input port and the Geek DAC to another of the HUB's service ports, seems to better things; but the earphones are still getting warm (not as before).

 

When using a windows PC source (directly or via the USB HUB) the earphones stay cold. The cause for the heating seems to be the S4, the OTG cable or both.

 

I did try several OTG cables, which works well with other DACs I have. Also the S4 works normaly with my FiiO E18 DAC as well as with my (battery less) HiFiMeDIY android DAC with no heating and with clear sound.

 

 

Another standing issue is the fact that the GeekOut DAC does not support yet the Galaxy S4 (hope this will be addressed by an expected Light Harmonic Labs' firmaware update to the Geek).

 

Please advice 

post #4728 of 5360

In the meantime, we could analyse your Geek Out-S4 dmesg output log file,

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/60#post_8428180

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1395#post_9069866

 

and the USB descriptors of the Geek Out using USB View.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2025#post_9320708

 

The analysis could be proceeded as following: compare a dmesg output issued from a successful Android device - USB DAC interworking (i.e. S4 - FiiO E18 dmesg output) to a bugged dmesg output (i.e. S4 - Geek Out dmesg output).

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/75#post_8469751

 

The USB errors of a dmesg output are listed at the following links:

http://www.kneuro.net/cgi-bin/lxr/http/source/include/asm-arm/errno.h

http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/usb/error-codes.txt

http://www-numi.fnal.gov/offline_software/srt_public_context/WebDocs/Errors/unix_system_errors.html

http://www.kneuro.net/cgi-bin/lxr/http/source/include/linux/usb.h?a=mips#L427

 

 

It's weird because the Geek Out 1000 can work with a S5 or a Note3 without using a USB hub.

post #4729 of 5360

Managed to obtain both dmesg and logcat txt files. recording both E18 and Geek connections.

 

 

 

at first I connected the FiiO E18 DAC, activated UAPP - success; then I connected the Geek Out, activated UAPP - failed to initialize USB device

 

I have the files (for some reason I cannot attach it here)

 

Can someone advice?

 

Thanks


Edited by zolom - 5/15/14 at 10:50pm
post #4730 of 5360

Please send them to me by PM. I will publish them.

Do you also have the USB descriptors of the Geek Out?

 

Edit: You could also get the log files using the stock music player instead of UAPP, because the S4 can work with the FiiO E18 without using UAPP, and the Geek Out can work with the Galaxy Note3 without using UAPP.


Edited by DanBa - 5/16/14 at 12:06am
post #4731 of 5360

Thanks for your support

 

The logs with UASPP can be accessed here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13704932/DAC%20logs.zip

 

 

Logs with Native player (no UAPP) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13704932/DAC_LOG-no%20UAPP.zip

 

 

Hope I did it right.


Edited by zolom - 5/16/14 at 2:05am
post #4732 of 5360

Hi everybody, 

I would simply ask if anyone has managed to run the Nexus 5 with the HifimeDIY, 

i'm really interested to get this model of DAC:

 

http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62_73&product_id=83

 

but I really don't know if at the current state this is possible, of course I will

take the OTG cable that sells the official site.

Thanks in advance for any reply!

post #4733 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post
 

 

I don't quite understand your logic.

 

MP3 aside, can you please specify what types of music files did you try to play? I.e. did you test higher resolution music files with BD/SR above 16bit/44.1kHz?

 

And finally, why do you conclude that Touch 5G has the best USB Audio implementation by claiming that its internal DAC/Amp is the best?

 

I don't argue this statement about internal DAC/Amp, all I am saying that the internal DAC/Amp have absolutely nothing to do with USB audio implementation, as they are totally bypassed...

 

And then, we're left with all the stupid Apple things like no SD card support, iTunes nightmare to put music into the device, etc.

 

There have to be very solid reasons to claim iPod has the best USB Audio implementation... Oh, and can you please also tell us what current allowance does the iPod touch have, when you connect an external device to it?

For the most part, I've found my iPad to have clearly better USB audio implementation than any phone (Samsung, LG) I've had.  It always works, every time, even with my Bel Canto C5i speaker setup.  And jailbreaking has allowed me to bypass iTunes completely by putting all of my audio files in a folder I created.  But let's be clear, it's still no where near as versatile as my Android phone.  The interface will never be as customized to my liking.  The number of decent audio players is much higher on Android.  Even jailbroken, I need apps that can point to source folders (thankfully iOS Neutron player works.)  And no jailbreak hack can add an SD slot.

post #4734 of 5360

My portable set up is Galaxy Note III -> Fiio E07K -> HF5

 

My home set up is Windows 7 laptop -> Emotiva XDA-2 -> Denon amp / LDI+

 

My laptop is currently out of commission, awaiting a new heat-sink fan, so I tried to use my phone and its OTG cable to go into the XDA-2 but it does not work (some sound comes but it is incredibly distorted and piecemeal.) Not the end of the world, but I'm curious to know why this happens. Is it a drivers issue?


Edited by Brian_the_King - 5/16/14 at 1:55pm
post #4735 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_the_King View Post
 

My portable set up is Galaxy Note III -> Fiio E07K -> HF5

 

My home set up is Windows 7 laptop -> Emotiva XDA-2 -> Denon amp / LDI+

 

My laptop is currently out of commission, awaiting a new heat-sink fan, so I tried to use my phone and its OTG cable to go into the XDA-2 but it does not work (some sound comes but it is incredibly distorted and piecemeal.) Not the end of the world, but I'm curious to know why this happens. Is it a drivers issue?

 

I think what's happening is the dac is taking too much amperage from the phone and that's why it comes out distorted. I tested a Xonar U3 with an android phone and a Nexus 7 V.2 and some comes out distorted and and crackling.

 

I've just purchased a HRT Microstreamer and it's meant to take less draw from the phone.

 

Don't believe it's a driver or software interface issue as I purchased USB Audio Player in the app store and it still crackles despite whatever buffer settings or error implementation. More of a hardware issue.

 

Someone else will be able to clarify it better than me perhaps as I don't have much experience with this.

post #4736 of 5360
@ DanBa

First things first, great explanation you gave me there, exactly what I wanted to know.

Problem now is to decide if it is worth investing into "UAAP" or waiting the few remaining week's until Android KITKAT 4.4 gets officially rolled out and the problem with the dragonfly is probably fixed or not...

Would be silly to invest some money into something you won't need after the 4.4 Update.


Thank you again for taking some time and clearing thing out for me!:-)
post #4737 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post
 

 

May I ask if you use UAPP & the standard CLAS-supplied USB (OTG?) cable? The reason being is that I'm having a PITA trying to get that to work and I don't want to buy UAPP yet before ensuring this combination works reliably.

 

The trial is simply too short (either 20 min limitation or play tracks limitation) so I can't even evaluate the SQ coming out of UAPP as most of the time is fiddling to get it to work.

 

The maker has mentioned I can simply uninstall/reinstall to reset the trial but I'm losing patience and more detrimentally doesn't instill confidence in the product (for me at least).


I have also had issues with OTG cables and have yet to find one that works consistently and over time....Most start well, develop quirks and then refuses to work at al. Someone should make a GOOD, short reliable cable...Someone like Audioquest.

post #4738 of 5360
Quote:
Originally Posted by James1776 View Post
 


I have also had issues with OTG cables and have yet to find one that works consistently and over time....Most start well, develop quirks and then refuses to work at al. Someone should make a GOOD, short reliable cable...Someone like Audioquest.

 

I'd be willing to pay $30 to $40 for a 0.5m Forest micro USB to USB-B (large square) cable just to get rid of cable clutter with the OTG adapter. The cheapest alternative I've seen somewhere was a $70 custom job plus shipping (local AQ dealer near where I work), and at least with the AQ warranty exchange will be easier if they're broken out of the box.


Edited by ProtegeManiac - 5/17/14 at 9:42am
post #4739 of 5360

I would also go $30-40 for a quality OTG cable, but I need one that ends in a regular USB female (to connect to my Dragonfly) and it needs be Very short, as in 3-4 inches...better would be a simple adapter, USB micro OTG to USB female...something that could be directly connected to the phone (with a case in place) and then to the dragonfly or similar DAC.

 

Another pet peeve...I am finding the quality of the USB outlet on phones and tablets increasingly cheesy...My wife has a new (4 months) Toshiba tablet and the charging connection already looks like it has been through a war I fear it might not last the year. As we increasingly use this outlet we need one that can take the continual use without anything breaking of bending.

post #4740 of 5360

Been using some pretty normal USB-OTG Cable myself for the last half year.

So far it didn't have anything to regret, it was about 10ish Dollars although i could have probably get the same cable for half the price on the interwebs :)

 

 

 

 

I have yet to see a "high-quality" cable whatever that means :)

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