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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 298

post #4456 of 5293

Trying to get bit-perfect streaming from Android to an external DAC still seems quite complex to me ! and I am not a fan of the UAPP interface.

 

So... is there any hope on the Windows Phone 8 devices ?

 

t least many of them have a Micro-SD expansion, but... do they support USB AUDIO ?  Can their players stream-out to an external DAC  24/192 WITHOUT Downsampling ?.

post #4457 of 5293
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post
 

Trying to get bit-perfect streaming from Android to an external DAC still seems quite complex to me ! and I am not a fan of the UAPP interface.

 

So... is there any hope on the Windows Phone 8 devices ?

 

t least many of them have a Micro-SD expansion, but... do they support USB AUDIO ?  Can their players stream-out to an external DAC  24/192 WITHOUT Downsampling ?.

 

Nope. I have a Nokia 620 (bought it as a cheap Garmin GPS replacement, my primary phone is Galaxy S3) and looked at high res audio for it.  Not gonna happen because:

1) absolutely NO USB OTG support for any Windows Phone 8 device, OS doesn't support it.

2) no FLAC music/media players available in Windows Phone Store.

 

If the Android + DAC thing is too complex for you, then maybe get a new iPhone5(s) and something like the JDS C5D.  I personally don't think the Android+DAC is too hard.  DanBa already did all the hard work of compiling and maintaining a HUGE list of phones and DACs that are compatible.  Just find something on the list that works and buy that. 

post #4458 of 5293

bmitchels :

Quote:
So... is there any hope on the Windows Phone 8 devices ? 

Just a thought on this - I have no experience of Windows phones - but I have just bought a Windows 8 tablet ( 8" Toshiba Encore ) and although there are some things I don't like about the way it works ( software mainly ), it's amazing what this is capable of considering the size. It runs Windows 8.1,  32 bit and does it a lot better than my old netbook ever used to !  I am wondering how long it will be before someone brings out a phone that runs full windows. Of course the tablet will work with any of my dacs/soundcards with no problems.

Mustn't forget this is an Android thread though, so back to my Moto G which deigns to work with 2 dacs and my Samsung tab which works with another ( but not the other 2 ) !

post #4459 of 5293
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynacampjim View Post
 

bmitchels :

Just a thought on this - I have no experience of Windows phones - but I have just bought a Windows 8 tablet ( 8" Toshiba Encore ) and although there are some things I don't like about the way it works ( software mainly ), it's amazing what this is capable of considering the size. It runs Windows 8.1,  32 bit and does it a lot better than my old netbook ever used to !  I am wondering how long it will be before someone brings out a phone that runs full windows. Of course the tablet will work with any of my dacs/soundcards with no problems.

Mustn't forget this is an Android thread though, so back to my Moto G which deigns to work with 2 dacs and my Samsung tab which works with another ( but not the other 2 ) !

 You are right, TOSHIBA ENCORE 8" or  ASUS vivo note pro tablet 8" + JRiver or Foobar may be the solution of the source problem!

 

I will investigate, but with 64Gb + 128 Gb MicroSD, it looks tempting...   No more stupid 16/44 limitations..

 

A smaller  6" Screen version will be PERFECT !


Edited by bmichels - 4/2/14 at 4:20pm
post #4460 of 5293

May be here is THE alternative source for external DAC like the HUGO:  Panasonic FZ-M1

 

A rugged 7" Tablet with USB 3, Windows 8.1 pro 64 bits & 256 Gb on board + MicroSD : 384 Gb    

 

--> by by ONKO player & UAPP,  Welcome  JRiver or Foobar :-)

 

 

 

what do you think ? 


Edited by bmichels - 4/3/14 at 12:24am
post #4461 of 5293
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

May be here is THE alternative source for external DAC like the HUGO:  Panasonic FZ-M1

A rugged 7" Tablet with USB 3, Windows 8.1 pro 64 bits & 256 Gb on board + MicroSD : 384 Gb    

--> by by ONKO player & UAPP,  Welcome  JRiver or Foobar :-)





what do you think ? 

Cool idea but can't put it in your pocket!'

I'd rather see a 6" Windows RT tablet with audio out support paired with a good external dac/amp.
post #4462 of 5293
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post


Cool idea but can't put it in your pocket!'

I'd rather see a 6" Windows RT tablet with audio out support paired with a good external dac/amp.

 

Totaly Agree, but....

 

does Windows RT support USB AUDIO-OUT ?  And are there 6" RT Tablets with BIG internal capacity + MicroSD card?

post #4463 of 5293
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

Totaly Agree, but....

does Windows RT support USB AUDIO-OUT ?  And are there 6" RT Tablets with BIG internal capacity + MicroSD card?

I blelieve RT supports USB audio out but I don't know of an under 7" tablet that runs windows RT
post #4464 of 5293
post #4465 of 5293
There a several ways an Android phone can implement USB Audio. Depending on how much of the original framework is reused or replaced, you will get different results and a different impact on volume handling.

Phone manufacturers are to a to a large extent bound to what their chip supplier has decided to do, and may not have access to all hardware directly but be forced to ask the chip supplier for any modifiations, which these might or might not be willing to do in any particular chipset. For the Qualcomm Snapdragon high-performance chipsets which many use for high-end phones, the audio framework runs at 48kHz/16bits.

It is a substantial change to modify all components in that framework to instead run at higher frequencies, particularly if DSP sound processing algorithms have been added - as we have done in Sony Mobile for some years. Therefore, we choose to implement the first release of high-res support on our phones as a bypass of the audio framework directly to USB. Others have instead modified the framework, and therefore will have high-res audio from the internal DAC too. Whether the small amp in these chipsets really is capable of doing justice to high-res sound is another matter; but they at least will be impacted by the limit on volume due to hearing protection regulations, which makes it difficult or impossible to use more expensive, high-impendace headphones.

Anyway, If you turn our high-res audio bypass off, high-res sound will be down-sampled to 48kHz/16bit and passes through the audio framework, be able to use our DSP eftects (such as room virtualization) and go through the mixer with any notifications etc.

In the latter case, you will get volume control from the audio framework, and the data passed through to USB will basically lose some of the least significant bits which will resulti n lower output volume from the DAC. It is probsble that some of the phones which are reported to enable volume control works in this way.

In the former case, when we bypass the audio framework, the principle is to avoid any manipulation of the data, and so we do not perform any volume adjustment in the digital domain. For DAC/amps like the FiiO E17 this is not a problem, since it has a volume control, but for the Dragonfly it is.

Volume control in the DAC can be done either in the digital domain or after D/A conversion in the analog domain. It is a quite contentious issue whether a digital volume control should be used or not. If you do this in a 16-bit space, the some bits will be lost, but depending on the maximum volume of your device and its S/N ratio, some or all of this information might anyway be lost in noise or below the threshold edge of your hearing. Most DAC's use at least 24bits and some even use 32 (or more) bits internally, so in those cases it should not matter as long as the volume control is done properly within the DAC.

The problem comes when a DAC has internal volume control (either digital or analog) but no physical controls. In that case, it relies on USB control signals sent, beside the full original data, to control the volume. This is apparently a part of the USB standard which a PC or Mac has no trouble which, but which generally is not implemented in Android, at least as it comes from Google or as adapted by Qualcomm for their chipsets. In principle it is possible for a manufacturer of for other chip suppliers to add that, but I have no information either way whether this is done or not; given the nature of the subjects, I would however guess that none have done so since a digital volule control in the phone will mostly perform adequately, especially when used on the move with some background noise. In the case of Sony Mobile, I have so far not been able to get this prioritized.
post #4466 of 5293
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

LH Labs Geek Out USB DAC/amp & Android USB audio:
http://www.lightharmonic.com/download/ces2014press/Documents/Geek_Out_Product_Information.pdf







*
TBH, it looks like market gibberish. Hope its good though.
post #4467 of 5293

Has anyone tried the Beyerdynamic A 200 p with an Android device?

post #4468 of 5293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q Mass View Post
 

Has anyone tried the Beyerdynamic A 200 p with an Android device?

Since this thread is about USB DACs , the Android Device shouldn't be such a big deal as the SQ will be based upon The DAC and Amp downstream. I'll assume that your material and player software are good. If you plan to plug your headphones directly into an Android device, this may not be the best thread to ask, besides in that use case the specific Android device would be an important part of the consideration.


Edited by StanD - 4/4/14 at 2:45pm
post #4469 of 5293

Android smartphone cable with battery lead: Clean 5V power for sound improvement of USB DAC
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/165#post_8540151
https://www.facebook.com/ElijahAudio?ref=stream
 
Galaxy S4 >> USB OTG Y-cable powered by a 5V battery >> Digitech DAC/amp >> Sennheiser headphones

 

Prototype Android smartphone cable with battery lead:

 

 

 

 

Android smartphone cable with battery lead: almost ready for production

 

 

 

 

 

Android smartphone cable with battery lead: first production model

 

 

 

Closeup of the Micro plug wiring layout


Edited by DanBa - 4/4/14 at 5:17pm
post #4470 of 5293

Sorry StanD, I don't understand your reply.

I want to improve the sound quality of my Android device by using a DAC/Amp, Isn't that what the A 200p is?

I assumed that since Idevice users use it to bypass their DACs it must be USB, am I wrong?

Beyer claim compatibility with Android


Edited by Q Mass - 4/4/14 at 2:57pm
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