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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 297

post #4441 of 5134
Quote:
Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post
 

 

Z2 has a card slot, will take 128GB cards.

 

DanBa might be able to let you know whether the Note 3 or G2 can do 24-bit audio to external DACs.

 thanks.  This is good news.  

post #4442 of 5134

My Note 3 (stock 4.4.2) plays DXD files directly from Neutron Amp to my M2tech Hiface DAC. But could not confirm if it is the exact bit rate since my DAC has no lights (like Dragonfly).  Still waiting for my Geek Out 1000 to arrive.

post #4443 of 5134
Z2 looks like it will be a great phone but the chances of it coming to the USA are slim and it coming to Verizon is is even slimmer. If I didn't have the unlimited data plan I would probably change carriers.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
post #4444 of 5134

Hi there,

 

I was wondering ... is there any way that USB audio volume is controlled from the Android platform itself ? As it stands now, as soon as you connect any USB DAC in place volume is maxed out. I believe that such output is classified as digital output hence no volume control is available. This is troubling  for portable DACs (HRT Microstreamer, Audioengine D3 ... etc) where no analogue volume control is available. Such  devices are sensing the volume changes from the operating system and such markers are mapped to the internal analogue stepped attenuator.

 

By the way, closest I could find about this subject on the xda-developers:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48697874&postcount=927

 

... but not sure if it's relevant for the recent KitKat releases.

 

I don't mind to use custom kernels, patches, ROMs as my HTC one is already rooted.

 

Also, I was testing the Audioengine D3 and iFi iDSD ... and I'm unable to use them outside of the USB Audio Player Pro domain. Just wondering, why Android is unable to use them natively? as I would really like to use native applications (players, streaming, online music etc).

 

Any input is greatly appreciated!

post #4445 of 5134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito73 View Post

Hi there,

I was wondering ... is there any way that USB audio volume is controlled from the Android platform itself ? As it stands now, as soon as you connect any USB DAC in place volume is maxed out. I believe that such output is classified as digital output hence no volume control is available. This is troubling  for portable DACs (HRT Microstreamer, Audioengine D3 ... etc) where no analogue volume control is available. Such  devices are sensing the volume changes from the operating system and such markers are mapped to the internal analogue stepped attenuator.

By the way, closest I could find about this subject on the xda-developers:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48697874&postcount=927

... but not sure if it's relevant for the recent KitKat releases.

I don't mind to use custom kernels, patches, ROMs as my HTC one is already rooted.

Also, I was testing the Audioengine D3 and iFi iDSD ... and I'm unable to use them outside of the USB Audio Player Pro domain. Just wondering, why Android is unable to use them natively? as I would really like to use native applications (players, streaming, online music etc).

Any input is greatly appreciated!

I'm running a Note 3 through an iBasso D-Zero and hooked up through micro USB, I can control the volume via the volume buttons on the phone. Running 4.3
post #4446 of 5134

This thread is getting really long and I hope nobody has asked this already but:

 

I'm running an htc one through 4.4.2 CM 11 and am trying to output to a FiiO e18. When I plug it in the device clearly knows the device is there

since the volume control pops up. I can also pause, forward, and backwards through the FiiO, but sound only plays from the speaker no matter what I try.

UAPP and UARP both can't recognize the device (they show as failed). Any other otg/ usb audio related app on the play store doesn't seem to work either.

Does anyone have a fix for this?

post #4447 of 5134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito73 View Post

Hi there,

I was wondering ... is there any way that USB audio volume is controlled from the Android platform itself ? As it stands now, as soon as you connect any USB DAC in place volume is maxed out. I believe that such output is classified as digital output hence no volume control is available. This is troubling  for portable DACs (HRT Microstreamer, Audioengine D3 ... etc) where no analogue volume control is available. Such  devices are sensing the volume changes from the operating system and such markers are mapped to the internal analogue stepped attenuator.

By the way, closest I could find about this subject on the xda-developers:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48697874&postcount=927

... but not sure if it's relevant for the recent KitKat releases.

I don't mind to use custom kernels, patches, ROMs as my HTC one is already rooted.

Also, I was testing the Audioengine D3 and iFi iDSD ... and I'm unable to use them outside of the USB Audio Player Pro domain. Just wondering, why Android is unable to use them natively? as I would really like to use native applications (players, streaming, online music etc).

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Hi, in my experience, on stock Moto G 4.4.2, it is just as you suggest - plug DAC into phone (stoner acoustics UD110 in my case), and you get a fixed (MAX) line level output from the DAC for audio in any apps, with no control over the volume output, the only exception being UAPP (where you have software volume control). All other audio - notifications, ringer etc. - function as it (kinda) should (I get a bit of glitching from audio output to the phones speaker, but am otherwise satisfied that audio is being routed where it should be).

However, if I attach the DAC and then reboot the phone with the DAC attached the Android volume control will function upon restart, for all apps. Neat. But I can't be sure that a phone caller will hear me, or if I will hear them (I haven't verified this) because all system audio is being routed through the DAC... So it's clearly not the desired means by which to be operating (no audio from earpiece ; no audio from speaker ; unsure if phones microphone works).

The best case scenario so is to use an amp after the DAC, or a DAC/amp combined in one device. My Fiio E5 amp is unable to take the fixed (MAX) output I mentioned at the top of this post, I get an obviously distorted, clipped signal, so I have been using the reboot method until I bother to pick up another amp or DAC/amp (the signal is not distorted when I connect phone to DAC to my hi-fi amp, so I deduce, but have yet not proven, that the Fiio E5's input can't handle the MAX line level being output by the UD110).

I hope this helps clarify, be prepared however that every phone and every DAC may behave ever so slightly differently depending on the version of phone OS/ hardware, and the DACs firmware/hardware. Generally it appears to follow that you get what you pay for, although at €150/£99 the Moto G is a worthy budget priced competitor, that has improved with OS updates, with few shortcomings. As is, it's fair to mention, the UD110 DAC (€40 approx).
post #4448 of 5134
@ gnauhZ

You're sure you have a good Otg cable? And not just a power cable?
post #4449 of 5134

I think this varies from phone to phone. What you have described for Moto G is similar for HTC One. HOwever, on my LG G2, I can control the volume regardless of the music app I am using (with FiiO E18.)

post #4450 of 5134
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeap69 View Post

I think this varies from phone to phone. What you have described for Moto G is similar for HTC One. HOwever, on my LG G2, I can control the volume regardless of the music app I am using (with FiiO E18.)


Good for you. And good on LG. It's very much a lottery as to what works where. And for how long (OS updates etc.). Unfortunately Android has never been nurtured as an OS that should function as anything more than a platform for delivery of Google services. Without wishing to start a flame war, it's clear to me that while Apple will insist that you play within the confines of their walled garden, iOS from inception was to extend the Mac "it just works" paradigm to mobile. Maybe you can't extend the functionality as far as you might like beyond consumer level usefulness, but for 90% it covers everything pretty much really, really well.
post #4451 of 5134
Quote:
Originally Posted by swab View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeap69 View Post

I think this varies from phone to phone. What you have described for Moto G is similar for HTC One. HOwever, on my LG G2, I can control the volume regardless of the music app I am using (with FiiO E18.)


Good for you. And good on LG. It's very much a lottery as to what works where. And for how long (OS updates etc.). Unfortunately Android has never been nurtured as an OS that should function as anything more than a platform for delivery of Google services. Without wishing to start a flame war, it's clear to me that while Apple will insist that you play within the confines of their walled garden, iOS from inception was to extend the Mac "it just works" paradigm to mobile. Maybe you can't extend the functionality as far as you might like beyond consumer level usefulness, but for 90% it covers everything pretty much really, really well.

Fanboyism at its finest. Have you forgotten the crap that is iTunes that shoved DRM and terrible proprietary audio formats down consumers throats and lets not forget how apple creates problems for accessories for isheep devices which has people confused about cck and lightning ports and portable amp compatibility.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Edited by vegasf1 - 4/2/14 at 3:34am
post #4452 of 5134

Sorry vegasf1, it wasn't my intention to offend anybody.

 

Let's just say that "in my experience" of using both iOS and Android devices (full disclosure : my current phone is a Motorola Moto G ; I do own an iPad mini, a 3rd generation going on for 5 years old iPod Touch and my wife owns an iPhone 5) accessories do tend to work more seamlessly within the iOS realm, which shouldn't come as a surprise given that the iOS hardware (and Made for iOS accessories) is/are expensive. Many of the flagship Android devices appear to provide as good as iOS compatibility/hardware support, and is arguably less prohibitive in terms of what can be supported.

 

I wanted to dip a toe into the world of android audio, and have not been displeased with the results, particularly given the price point that the Moto G is retailing at. In that regard, it beats paying twice to three times the amount I would for a 3 year old iPhone. I'm delighted that Android is starting to catch up with iOS in areas where Apple have been the only horse in town, my only regret is that the fragmentation as regards support for externals versus that of iOS is exponential in terms of spread. This thread is as long as it is because of that. And there's none of us that hasn't benefited from the threads MO, so let's stick with that and my apologies again for ever having made any comparison to the fruit phones.

post #4453 of 5134
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swab View Post


Good for you. And good on LG. It's very much a lottery as to what works where. And for how long (OS updates etc.). Unfortunately Android has never been nurtured as an OS that should function as anything more than a platform for delivery of Google services. Without wishing to start a flame war, it's clear to me that while Apple will insist that you play within the confines of their walled garden, iOS from inception was to extend the Mac "it just works" paradigm to mobile. Maybe you can't extend the functionality as far as you might like beyond consumer level usefulness, but for 90% it covers everything pretty much really, really well.

 

Originally Posted by vegasf1 View Post

Fanboyism at its finest. Have you forgotten the crap that is iTunes that shoved DRM and terrible proprietary audio formats down consumers throats and lets not forget how apple creates problems for accessories for isheep devices which has people confused about cck and lightning ports and portable amp compatibility.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

 

Originally Posted by swab View Post
 

Sorry vegasf1, it wasn't my intention to offend anybody.

 

Let's just say that "in my experience" of using both iOS and Android devices (full disclosure : my current phone is a Motorola Moto G ; I do own an iPad mini, a 3rd generation going on for 5 years old iPod Touch and my wife owns an iPhone 5) accessories do tend to work more seamlessly within the iOS realm, which shouldn't come as a surprise given that the iOS hardware (and Made for iOS accessories) is/are expensive. Many of the flagship Android devices appear to provide as good as iOS compatibility/hardware support, and is arguably less prohibitive in terms of what can be supported.

 

I wanted to dip a toe into the world of android audio, and have not been displeased with the results, particularly given the price point that the Moto G is retailing at. In that regard, it beats paying twice to three times the amount I would for a 3 year old iPhone. I'm delighted that Android is starting to catch up with iOS in areas where Apple have been the only horse in town, my only regret is that the fragmentation as regards support for externals versus that of iOS is exponential in terms of spread. This thread is as long as it is because of that. And there's none of us that hasn't benefited from the threads MO, so let's stick with that and my apologies again for ever having made any comparison to the fruit phones.

 

There's nothing wrong with what swab said, and I think vegasf1, that's rather stereotyping someone just because they have expressed their opinion about a certain platform is quite uncalled for.

 

I actually happen to agree with swab in this case that Apple's ethos is about intuitive end user experience. Having used both platform I have to "tweak" at best, or "program" at worst to get my Android phone to be productive whereas with the iPhone, "It just works". Yes sure Apple locks you into their ecosystem but as a consumer of that ecosystem, it's consistent - that's what standards are for.  So far with my Android experience, it's not intuitive and each developer has been left too much into their own devices that the phone as a self-contained unit is is inconsistent from app to app.

 

Not to drift back to topic, have a look at Dan Ba's great work showing how USB audio stack is implemented in the Android platform. There are variants and not a single standard. In fact the need to have a thread like this speaks for itself.

post #4454 of 5134
@m-i-c-k-e-y

Yeah I tried it with the supplied micro usb male to male as well as a full size usb to micro usb otg cable I purchased from amazon. I was under the impression that CM 11 supports usb audio and made the switch when I heard 4.4.2 on the One seems to have disabled usb audio. But now I'm nost so sure about CM.
post #4455 of 5134
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post
 

Not to drift back to topic, have a look at Dan Ba's great work showing how USB audio stack is implemented in the Android platform. There are variants and not a single standard. In fact the need to have a thread like this speaks for itself.

 

There is no Android standard on USB Audio (i.e. there is no Google support for USB Audio) because the request to Google "24614 Add support for USB Audio" is still ongoing.
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars

 

It's up to us, consumers, to promote our own interests on USB Audio; and for the time being the result is pleasing:
. every flagship Android smartphone has to natively support USB Audio
. cheap Android device like $40 Azpen A700 using USB Audio Player PRO (UAPP) can stream high resolution USB audio.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3465#post_9991738

 

Thanks to the open source Android and its open standard compliancy, despite Google:
. a lot of Android devices can natively interwork with a lot of USB DACs using the standard USB Audio Class interface
. almost all Android devices with standard USB Host enabled using UAPP (by the way the best sound quality music player) can interwork with almost all USB DACs.

 

I was an iPhone user, and I switched to Galaxy S3 and now Galaxy Note3 for their USB Audio feature, their microSD slot and their large screen size (BTW very pleased so far).
I think it's easier for consumers to promote their interests in the Android open source model than in the Apple ecosytem: due to some vested interests Google doesn't support USB Audio or microSD card, Samsung and more and more Android device makers do!


Edited by DanBa - 4/2/14 at 8:14am
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