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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 186

post #2776 of 5945

USB audio & affordable iOCEAN X7 (5 inch 1080p screen quad-core CPU 2GB RAM Android phone)

http://iocean.androidguruz.com/index.html

http://chinandroidhospital.com/viewtopic.php?f=344&t=576

 

iOCEAN X7 using USB Audio Recorder PRO > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable >> iBasso D42 USB DAC/amp >> headphones

 

 

post #2777 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellobie View Post
Hummer, after further reading yesterday, I noticed that custom ROMs don't provide custom USB audio drivers for most Android devices. My mistake. Sorry about the wrong information. So far I only came across a custom ROM for Nexus 7 which supports native USB audio. Not sure if it's working thou, but if there's anyone interested, you can check it out -> http://mehrvarz.github.io/nexus-7-usbrom/

 

I don't want to downplay custom ROM's and sound like UARP is the way to go, but since this is the HiFi forum, you should be informed that the Android API limits to 16-bit audio, so any audio you will play using 'standard' apps using custom ROM's will be fed to the driver in 16-bit. UARP and the upcoming USB audio service do not have that limit. I am not sure if there is a 48kHz limit as well, some say so but there isn't a technical reason for it in the Android API in this case.

post #2778 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXtream View Post

 

I don't want to downplay custom ROM's and sound like UARP is the way to go, but since this is the HiFi forum, you should be informed that the Android API limits to 16-bit audio, so any audio you will play using 'standard' apps using custom ROM's will be fed to the driver in 16-bit. UARP and the upcoming USB audio service do not have that limit. I am not sure if there is a 48kHz limit as well, some say so but there isn't a technical reason for it in the Android API in this case.

 

eXtream, this is a very valid point, I think it is important that we understand all the details! Thank you for re-emphasizing it.

 

It is less applicable in some cases than in others. For instance, in my set up RSA Predator is a 44.1/16bit DAC anyway, so with this set up I personally would not benefit from higher sampling rates or bit depth. However, with UARP I will have the freedom to think about upgrading the DAC/Amp to a model supporting higher bitrates, or even adding a small DAC like HiFace DAC by m2tech, http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface_dac.html, and keep the Predator as an amp. Which option I will not have relying on USB audio stack in Android.


Edited by SV_huMMer - 8/1/13 at 4:54am
post #2779 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

I am wondering if you have separately tested the different elements of your setup:
Galaxy S3 >> Micro-USB plug to Standard-A receptacle USB OTG cable adapter + Standard-A plug to Mini-B plug USB cable >> Matrix Mini Portable >> headphones
 
. Galaxy S3 in USB host mode and USB OTG cable adapter:
Galaxy S3 >> USB OTG cable adapter >> USB peripheral like USB mouse or USB keyboard
 
. USB cable and Matrix Mini Portable:
PC or Mac >> USB cable >> Matrix Mini Portable >> headphones
 
 
If you have successfully tested the different elements, then the current native USB Audio of the Galaxy S3 can’t drive the Matrix Mini Portable.
Maybe USB Audio Recorder PRO can.
 
USB Audio Recorder PRO can drive a lot more of USB DACs than the native USB Audio.
There is a free trial version.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro

Thanks for the tip. I tried the demo of USB recorder and it works (sounds superb). I would ,however,like to be able to use any player app for music as USB recorder isn't really meant to be a music player. It doesn't seem to support mp3 either!
post #2780 of 5945
Can someone using a USB-powered DAC with an android tell me if there are any noise/sq problems when the DAC is powered by the USB of the phone/tablet.
Do I need a USB-isolator or will it be fine without one?
post #2781 of 5945

Yes, there can be noise, but it seems (at least in my case) to be the same sorts of noise you'd hear if you had good IEMs plugged directly into the phone. I tried using a split cable once that allows you to use a portable battery, but I ran into a big jump in audible noise, so I quit trying it. Might work with a different battery though. 

post #2782 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXtream View Post

 

I don't want to downplay custom ROM's and sound like UARP is the way to go, but since this is the HiFi forum, you should be informed that the Android API limits to 16-bit audio, so any audio you will play using 'standard' apps using custom ROM's will be fed to the driver in 16-bit. UARP and the upcoming USB audio service do not have that limit. I am not sure if there is a 48kHz limit as well, some say so but there isn't a technical reason for it in the Android API in this case.

Didn't know about the 16 bit limitation till you mentioned it. Thanks for the detailed info! etysmile.gif

post #2783 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownAX View Post

Can someone using a USB-powered DAC with an android tell me if there are any noise/sq problems when the DAC is powered by the USB of the phone/tablet.
Do I need a USB-isolator or will it be fine without one?

Depends on how you define noise.

In my experience, a cell phone connected to the network does produce clicks, beeps and hum, mainly caused by nefwork activity. With my set up (see the signature for the description of my portable rig) these unwanted sounds were audible through headphones connected to a USB DAC. One solution was to switch the phone to Airplane Mode. Another, that I opted for recently, was to get a separate android phone to be used as a digital source only. In my case it has no sim card installed at all, is always in airplane mode, and so far produces no unwanted sounds.

The next thing is the noise floor of the USB DAC/Amp itself. This varies greatly, and depends on the model. RSA Predator has none! smily_headphones1.gif
post #2784 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post


Depends on how you define noise.

In my experience, a cell phone connected to the network does produce clicks, beeps and hum, mainly caused by nefwork activity. With my set up (see the signature for the description of my portable rig) these unwanted sounds were audible through headphones connected to a USB DAC. One solution was to switch the phone to Airplane Mode....

 

While connecting my Galaxy S3 to the network, I am used to put it away from my ODAC + Neco Soundlab V3 portable amp + Mad Dog headphones by using a USB OTG cable adapter + a regular USB cable : no more radiated EMI (ElectroMagnetic Interference).

post #2785 of 5945
Thanks! I know how the clicks,etc. sound, you can also experience them through the built in dac of a phone. Seems like CPU or USB power noise isn't a problem for the DAC's.
That means there is nothing stopping me from buying a nexus7 and a hifimediy sabre tiny DAC to go with it! smily_headphones1.gif
I'll propably have to wait a month or so, until the new nexus is available in Europe. I still haven't decided if I should buy the new or the old one. The old one will most likely get even cheaper when the new one arrives...
Edited by UnknownAX - 8/2/13 at 12:59am
post #2786 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

While connecting my Galaxy S3 to the network, I am used to put it away from my ODAC + Neco Soundlab V3 portable amp + Mad Dog headphones by using a USB OTG cable adapter + a regular USB cable : no more radiated EMI (ElectroMagnetic Interference).

True, but then you can't have your source and your dac/amp neatly stacked together:)
post #2787 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post


Depends on how you define noise.

In my experience, a cell phone connected to the network does produce clicks, beeps and hum, mainly caused by nefwork activity. With my set up (see the signature for the description of my portable rig) these unwanted sounds were audible through headphones connected to a USB DAC. One solution was to switch the phone to Airplane Mode. Another, that I opted for recently, was to get a separate android phone to be used as a digital source only. In my case it has no sim card installed at all, is always in airplane mode, and so far produces no unwanted sounds.

The next thing is the noise floor of the USB DAC/Amp itself. This varies greatly, and depends on the model. RSA Predator has none! smily_headphones1.gif

 

I definitely had the network throw all kinds of interference on my Galaxy Note II + iBasso D-Zero when connected via USB. Would go away with Airplane Mode, but I couldn't just walk around with my phone blocking calls :(  

 

I'm back to using my Voodoo Galaxy S (with airplane mode on) until I can find a portable DAC/Amp that has enough shielding that it's silent when attached to the back of the phone. If anyone has any experience with an amp/DAC with adequate shielding, let me know. I need the GN2 to be a real convergence device if I'm going to justify carrying a huge phone >.> I want to carry one brick!  One!

post #2788 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinValentine View Post

I definitely had the network throw all kinds of interference on my Galaxy Note II + iBasso D-Zero when connected via USB. Would go away with Airplane Mode, but I couldn't just walk around with my phone blocking calls frown.gif  

I'm back to using my Voodoo Galaxy S (with airplane mode on) until I can find a portable DAC/Amp that has enough shielding that it's silent when attached to the back of the phone. If anyone has any experience with an amp/DAC with adequate shielding, let me know. I need the GN2 to be a real convergence device if I'm going to justify carrying a huge phone >.> I want to carry one brick!  One!

Exactly! This is why I went down the path of buying a smaller phone for music purposes. It is small enough for me to carry, and it fits my rather large headphones' carrying case.
post #2789 of 5945
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

W
IMO, there is no way someone else could answer this question for you. We don't know your music tastes, your music quality requirements, etc.

Create a test album best reflecting your music preferences, make a trip to a good portable audio store, and listen to a couple of portable DAC/amps. And you'll have the best answer smily_headphones1.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post


Exactly! This is why I went down the path of buying a smaller phone for music purposes. It is small enough for me to carry, and it fits my rather large headphones' carrying case.


SV-huMMer, thanks for the reply to my question, Xperia TL via USB versus Clip Zip. After I posted it I realized the many variations of this, some using UARP, others using custom ROM's and kernels, etc. Anyway, I received my OTG cable today and my Xperia TL connected to my Audio GD NFB12 DAC/AMP, displayed the same USB power consumption error. I have read your various posts and analysis of the issue. Are you using the generic USB hub to fool your Sola or the small powered hub Danba suggested? BTW the link in his post for Dr. Bots T-3 doesn't work. I wonder if anyone has tried the hifidiy Sabre dac, perhaps its power consumption is low enough to work with the Xperia. Does the power consumption error indicate the TL will work in OTG if the power issue is resolved? Thanks for all your research. I love my Xperia TL, and would like to use it. satwilson

post #2790 of 5945

My E17 and my Verizon GS4 get along in a stack. There is a very very slight bit of random noise when the phone is connected to wifi, but it is dead silent on 3g and 4g. Certain amps/DAC's will be better shielded than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post


True, but then you can't have your source and your dac/amp neatly stacked together:)
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