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Which DAC for a Phonitor + HD 800 ? - Page 2

post #16 of 38
2/9/12 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post



Thank you for your answer. But as regards those upgrades, they're at best dubious if not totally stupid or dangerous. As an example, they propose to replace with a "matched pair" (whatever that means for opamps) of Burson opamps the two IC opamps used in the Phonitor - but those aren't used in the sound circuit, they're there to cancel the DC offset ! So it's likely to at best do nothing to SQ and at worst degrade the DC offset. The other improvements may be useful, but I'd like measurements to back this up for the price they're asking.

I didn't know about the ExaSound, thank you, I'll look into it. It lacks balanced out though - so that means buying RCA adapters for the Phonitor.

I think you're pushing it with the language, a better potentiometer (actually a potentiometer has no place in a state of the art product), better regulators certainly will not hurt (the certainly didn't in my DAC, just like the Burson opamps). I agree though, the price is unreasonable and there's no way to try before you buy, it's an expensive cable manufacturer, what do you expect. ? wink.gif

As for the RCA outs, the Phonitor is not a balanced amplifier anyway, a RCA to XLR cable is all you need, no adapters.

Back to the EXA dac, the only thing that has to be determined IMO is stability of the drivers, that makes or breaks the product. Also, currently they only fully support windows, MAC support is in beta and Linux is not (yet) supported AFAIK.
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post #17 of 38
2/9/12 at 7:15pm
OP, another cheap option seems to be the Yulong Sabre D18 ... from reviews it seems exactly what you want. I would benchmark it against one of the pro DAC's to be sure though. It also has a 30 day trial period.
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post #18 of 38
2/9/12 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenius View Post


I'm certain that my point of view is correct for most people's taste. The HD800 has a hump around 6kHz that if mitigated a little makes it sound better and there's absolutely no loss of adjectives.


Have you read through all the impressions available and the appreciation thread?  And what are your experiences with the HD 800?  Have you owned them for an extended period of time?

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post #19 of 38
2/9/12 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post



 

As for Antelope Audio, I'm very skeptical about their products when they try to market a 384hz format that intuitively seems highly useless to me (although I may be proven wrong).

 



 

Skeptical I am of their marketing including the use of mini B usb on the Plus, and standard B on the Gold. Interested am I of their usb and clocking architecture. 

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post #20 of 38
2/9/12 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post



Have you read through all the impressions available and the appreciation thread?  And what are your experiences with the HD 800?  Have you owned them for an extended period of time?

No.

The best overall headphone I've heard, but not my personal favorite.

Yes (borrowed them, converted them to balanced and tested them for over a week).
Edited by eugenius - 2/9/12 at 11:54pm
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post #21 of 38
2/10/12 at 1:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post


I didn't like Michal answer regarding the 9018 chip, looks like a few more dBs is not so important for him, and he can even save the extra $30. I mean when I see this answer I start to wandering on what else he saved a few bucks. But maybe even with the lower chip set it will still sound good.

 

About the ULTRA MODIFICATIONS, I not sure I'm ready for the Phonitor to sound tube like...on the other hand I would like to try out the  Burson Audio HD Opamps.


Most DACs can't even take advantage of a chip specifications regarding THD + noise, as their analog section isn't quite up there. Maybe that's one of the reasons he decided not to use it. Also, the Mytek seems like the opposite of the Anedio for example - a very "unspecialized" unit that has almost swiss army knife functionalities. I suppose that carries additional costs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slwiser View Post

FYI, I am very happy with my Lavry da10 I have had for over four years and now am using it with my SLP Phonitor and HD800.

 

Just pick something and go with it.  That last few per cent or so of performance is going to be more in the head than any where else or in someone elses opinion other than yours. 

 

I think attempting to get that last bit of whatever is too hard and goes against the simply enjoyment of the music.  If you find something objectionable later then change up but enjoy the music as your primary focus.  Getting music that is worth the system you might get is going to be more of an effort than finding that last bit of equipment performance.


You're probably right, I shouldn't over think this. Thanks for your direct experience. Did you feel that in this configuration the HD 800 was too bright / strident / piercing ? With which transport do you use your DA10 ? A PC ? And with which software / drivers ?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenius View Post


I think you're pushing it with the language, a better potentiometer (actually a potentiometer has no place in a state of the art product), better regulators certainly will not hurt (the certainly didn't in my DAC, just like the Burson opamps). I agree though, the price is unreasonable and there's no way to try before you buy, it's an expensive cable manufacturer, what do you expect. ? wink.gif
As for the RCA outs, the Phonitor is not a balanced amplifier anyway, a RCA to XLR cable is all you need, no adapters.
Back to the EXA dac, the only thing that has to be determined IMO is stability of the drivers, that makes or breaks the product. Also, currently they only fully support windows, MAC support is in beta and Linux is not (yet) supported AFAIK.


As I said the other upgrades may be worth it, but somehow I highly doubt this company as a whole quite understand what's at work in an amp when they try to replace the default opamps used to cancel DC offset with (maybe better indeed) opamps which betterness is of no interest whatsoever. Also, I think potentiometers are in use in some TOL products. I's prefer a digitally controlled analog volume control, but that's not what the upgrade proposes.

To me the thing that mostly "brakes" the EXA is that it hasn't been widely reviewed yet and that I'm a Mac user. I'm not very adventurous I admit. Also, it seems from a  specification POV very close to the Anedio D2 - just more expensive and with slightly less functionalities. But the sound may be worth it, who knows.

 

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post #22 of 38
2/10/12 at 4:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post

You're probably right, I shouldn't over think this. Thanks for your direct experience. Did you feel that in this configuration the HD 800 was too bright / strident / piercing ? With which transport do you use your DA10 ? A PC ? And with which software / drivers ?
 


To my ears this is just right...course I am getting older and my ears may not be as sensitive as others or I just may not be that particular.  However,  I have rebuilt my portable setup over the last three months and have several headphone, amp and DACs to choice from to determine my actual ability to distinguish sounds and I am still able to do so.

 

My easy chair setup includes my PC using Windows XP Pro, Squeezebox server and Touch, FLAC files, Lavry DA10, SPL Phonitor and the HD800.


Edited by slwiser - 2/10/12 at 4:53am
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post #23 of 38
2/10/12 at 5:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenius View Post

Every equipment has compromises, I view the sincerity of the designer as refreshing. And anyway, there are even technical reasons in favor of just one dac instead of 4. More is not ALWAYS better.
Stop using "tube like" as a synonym for worse, it makes you seem less knowledgeable than you really are :P ... nevermind that Burson opamps do not sound at all like tubes, in fact the opposite is true, they sound like great solid state.
There's no opamp you can stick into a solid state amplifier and make the sound similar to tubes. Maybe if you're Nelson Pass and you can design a transistor that has a distortion spectrum similar to tubes and make single ended class A amplifiers with it, but I doubt it even then. smily_headphones1.gif
And OP, the HD800 NEEDS something to tame the brightness. Either the anaxilus mod, some judiciously used minimal phase EQ or a tube source with tubes that gel with the HD800 and your hearing. If you choose a pro DAC you need to use either the mod or EQ.


lol Eugen... I didn't know you're working at the Securitate telling other people's what to do, or what to say. tongue.gif

 

About the tube like, I'm sure they meant to make the Phonitor more transparent sounding, but tubes can roll-off the lower frequencies, not to mention speed.

 

I agree with you about the HD800... they definitely NEEDS something to tame the treble (maybe a "tube like" amp). 

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post #24 of 38
2/10/12 at 5:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slwiser View Post


To my ears this is just right...course I am getting older and my ears may not be as sensitive as others or I just may not be that particular.  However,  I have rebuilt my portable setup over the last three months and have several headphone, amp and DACs to choice from to determine my actual ability to distinguish sounds and I am still able to do so.

 

My easy chair setup includes my PC using Windows XP Pro, Squeezebox server and Touch, FLAC files, Lavry DA10, SPL Phonitor and the HD800.


You may be getting older, but it seems your impressions are shared by the fews who have been using the DA10/DA11 - Phonitor - HD 800 setup thus far :D. It's a system I've already seen in pictures three or four times, it seems to work quite well. Thanks for your impressions.

 

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post #25 of 38
2/10/12 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post


Most DACs can't even take advantage of a chip specifications regarding THD + noise, as their analog section isn't quite up there. Maybe that's one of the reasons he decided not to use it. Also, the Mytek seems like the opposite of the Anedio for example - a very "unspecialized" unit that has almost swiss army knife functionalities. I suppose that carries additional costs.

 

 

 

You're right...in the end of the day the sound is the most important! Today I've got the chance to hear and compare the V800 to the Apogee Mini DAC.

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post #26 of 38
2/10/12 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post


lol Eugen... I didn't know you're working at the Securitate telling other people's what to do, or what to say. tongue.gif

 

About the tube like, I'm sure they meant to make the Phonitor more transparent sounding, but tubes can roll-off the lower frequencies, not to mention speed.

 

I agree with you about the HD800... they definitely NEEDS something to tame the treble (maybe a "tube like" amp). 


Sorry, this is wrong on a few levels. First off, your generalizations of "tube amps" is just wrong. Depends on the topography of the circuits. I've heard SS amps sound warmer will more rolled off treble than tube amps....depends on the circuitry. Generalizations like this aren't helpful, they just help setup false stereotypes.

 

Secondly, the HD800's treble depends on what's upstream. Feed them bright/thin, you get what you gave them. My SS rig is pretty transparent (Cambridge Audio 650C CD Transport --> W4S DAC-2 --> HeadAmp GS-1) and the treble is great. No taming needed. Now if I put in a crappy/treble tilted recording like say The Flaming Lips version of DSoTM, then yes, it sounds bright...but it sounds bright on my LCD-3s too.

 

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post #27 of 38
2/11/12 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


Secondly, the HD800's treble depends on what's upstream. Feed them bright/thin, you get what you gave them. My SS rig is pretty transparent (Cambridge Audio 650C CD Transport --> W4S DAC-2 --> HeadAmp GS-1) and the treble is great. No taming needed. Now if I put in a crappy/treble tilted recording like say The Flaming Lips version of DSoTM, then yes, it sounds bright...but it sounds bright on my LCD-3s too.

 



So you're saying... the HD800 is very balanced in the treble, but most of the music have crappy/treble, man you can't blame it on the music. Since this thread is about DAC for the HD800 and the Phonitor, what will be your top recommendations for the most transparent DAC that you've heard with the Phonitor?

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post #28 of 38
2/14/12 at 1:58am
Thread Starter 

Thank you all for your answers. I'm probably going to buy the Anedio D2, as I received the confirmation that I can use it in both 110V and 230V, the asynchronous USB connection is likely not to require a USB to SPDIF adapter (less expensive then) and results in directly converting inside the DAC the signal in I2S, and it seems overall the most "modern" and focused device (I don't need all the functionnalities of the Mytek for example). And if I don't like it, I can return it. BTW, James from Anedio was very patient with my questions - very good customer service it seems. 

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post #29 of 38
2/14/12 at 2:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post

Thank you all for your answers. I'm probably going to buy the Anedio D2, as I received the confirmation that I can use it in both 110V and 230V, the asynchronous USB connection is likely not to require a USB to SPDIF adapter (less expensive then) and results in directly converting inside the DAC the signal in I2S, and it seems overall the most "modern" and focused device (I don't need all the functionnalities of the Mytek for example). And if I don't like it, I can return it. BTW, James from Anedio was very patient with my questions - very good customer service it seems. 



From the data and specs the Anedio D2 looks great..let us know your impression.

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post #30 of 38
2/14/12 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post



So you're saying... the HD800 is very balanced in the treble, but most of the music have crappy/treble, man you can't blame it on the music. Since this thread is about DAC for the HD800 and the Phonitor, what will be your top recommendations for the most transparent DAC that you've heard with the Phonitor?



First off the Phonitor is not the most transparent SS amp that I've heard. Secondly yes, its about driving this curve:

 

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=863&graphID[]=2621

 

You will notice that the HD800s are a "tougher nut" to crack amp wise compared to the K701s. wink.gif Secondly your generalizations of tubes amps are still wrong. And finally, here's a few DACs that I've heard that are very transparent and work quite well with the HD800s: W4S DAC-2, Cary Xciter DAC, Bryston BDA-1 to name some.

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