Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › does DAC really make alot of difference?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

does DAC really make alot of difference? - Page 3

post #31 of 52
2/6/12 at 3:14pm

No, I and my friend (owner of E9) don't like FiiO E9 because of low audiophile value it represents.

Reply
post #32 of 52
2/6/12 at 4:55pm

.

Reply
post #33 of 52
2/6/12 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Karma View Post

wow it's that bad? i wonder why they cost so much then...


...for the same reason that Audioquest speaker cables cost more than 12 gauge speaker wire.  Because there are those that will pay.

 

Reply
post #34 of 52
2/6/12 at 5:19pm

Borizm - the fact that you talk about "burn in" like it's a real thing makes me doubt your claims of authority.

Reply
post #35 of 52
2/6/12 at 5:40pm

 

Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post

...your Xonar essence should sound transparent and you have nothing to gain from upgrading it.

 

 

I have to disagree. But the OP will have to demo an external unit himself in order to determine whether there would be any justifiable gains in his setup, or not.


Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

The M-DAC has similar noise level to what Stereophile measured for the Xonar STX (in fact, the RCA output is more comparable to the cheap Xonar D1). Then again, the actual performance of the card may vary due to PCs with very noisy components, problems related to the power supply or motherboard, ground loops (especially with an external AC powered amplifier), or incorrect usage. Of course, if the differences are not measured, or proven with blind tests, they may not even exist.

 


A cryo treated AX850 is pulling power though a Shunyata Venom 3 power cord from a dedicated 20A circuit terminated with a Shunyata SR-Z1 receptacle. Box is also watercooled with both the pump and radiator outside of the case. The ASUS Crosshair IV Extreme board and Xonar ST soundcard I am using has also been cryo treated. I would consider the entire setup a lower-noise-than-average PC build. The introduction of an external DAC clearly lowered the noise floor even further. Again, the OP will have to demo an external unit himself in order to determine whether there would be any justifiable gains in his setup, or not.

 


Edited by adamlau - 2/6/12 at 5:43pm
Reply
post #36 of 52
2/6/12 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanium View Post

The Dac does make a difference but it is usually small enough that you would never pick up on with normal computer speakers as they aren't revealing enough. What you pay for with better DAC's is for the very subtle things that usually take very revealing equipment to bring out. That said I like the sound that I get from properly setup Burr brown DAC's over say the Cirrus Logic DAC's. Better dynamics & less conjestion in the sound. More open soundstage. These are all things that normal computer speaker lack the ability to expose. I use modified biamped studio monitors that are extremely revealing.



+1

Reply
post #37 of 52
2/7/12 at 12:25am
Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlau View Post

 

I would consider the entire setup a lower-noise-than-average PC build. The introduction of an external DAC clearly lowered the noise floor even further. Again, the OP will have to demo an external unit himself in order to determine whether there would be any justifiable gains in his setup, or not.


Note that modding the card can make the noise (and other performance) worse, unless you really know what you are doing. Cryo treatment, op-amp rolling, and other snake oil will not fix ground loops or other electrical problems that may be the cause of an abnormally high noise level. If you think the card is noisy, prove it with measurements, or at least a loopback recording of the line output playing a low level signal in 96 kHz/24-bit format (this would not reliably test for grounding issues with an external amplifier, though).

 


Edited by stv014 - 2/7/12 at 12:29am
Reply
post #38 of 52
2/7/12 at 7:57am
Ground loops? Electrical problems? Opamp rolling as snake oil? New home under NEC 2005. Dedicated 20A circuit with a dedicated ground. High quality power accessories all around. There was never any hum, never any issues with noise in the first place. Have you even listened to an ST/STX and then compared that to the output from a decent external DAC? Try that first...
Reply
post #39 of 52
2/7/12 at 8:54am

The Xonar STX line output has inaudible level of noise if the card and the setup it is used in performs at its full potential, this has been verified with measurements. You cannot hear a -120 dB noise floor (relative to the 2 Vrms maximum output), except at volume levels that could damage hearing with a full scale signal. So, if you think the card is audibly "noisy", and it is not just imagined, then your system is probably degrading its performance in some way (it can happen, due to multiple reasons, and expensive "high quality power accessories" are by no means guaranteed to avoid all of them), which will not be fixed by cryo treatment or replacing op-amps.

Regarding op-amps, I have yet to see a reliable double-blind test that proves that differences between modern op-amps that have adequate specs for high quality audio applications, and are used properly (the stock chips on the STX probably meet both criteria), can actually be heard.

 

Reply
post #40 of 52
2/7/12 at 11:19am

There is no need to mention a -120dB noise floor, no need to question the efficacy of cryo treatment, or opamps. I understand and respect your position. But you need to consider the entire playback chain. It is very simple in my case: ST/STX S/PDIF out to DAC to balanced (XLR) out to monitors > ST/STX analog out via unbalanced (RCA) to monitors. I stopped racing based on proof specs (of which we are all privy to and aware of) and headed out to the track long ago in an effort to understand system synergy. Listen to an ST/STX and then compare what you hear to the output from a decent external DAC. Try that first...


Edited by adamlau - 2/7/12 at 11:25am
Reply
post #41 of 52
2/7/12 at 11:23am

Is the Benchmark DAC1 a decent DAC in your eyes? It sounded like the Essence STX to me.

 

What are the specs of the equipment you prefer to the Essence STX?

Reply
post #42 of 52
2/7/12 at 11:28am

In fact, the Benchmark DAC1 does indeed sound like the ST/STX! I have always thought that ASUS modeled the sonic signature of the ST/STX after Benchmark.


Edited by adamlau - 2/7/12 at 11:37am
Reply
post #43 of 52
2/7/12 at 11:29am

DAC's shouldn't "sound" like anything.

Reply
post #44 of 52
2/7/12 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamlau View Post

In fact, the Benchmark DAC1 does indeed sound like the ST/STX! I have always thought that ASUS modeled the sonic signature of the ST/STX after Benchmark.


Yeah, neutrality confused.gif

 

I think that confirms you're looking for some sort of coloration in your gear.

Reply
post #45 of 52
2/7/12 at 11:44am

Confirms that I am looking for some sort of coloration in my gear? When did the DAC1 become the yardstick for neutrality?

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Computer Audio
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › does DAC really make alot of difference?