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post #46 of 60

Builds aren't the problem, it's the darned meets.  ;-)

 

 

post #47 of 60

Hey James,

 

Another head-fier living in Brazil? Now that's not something you don't see everyday. I suppose you're not Brazilian though, being called James, are you? In any case, if you're comfortable with Portuguese (I suppose you are), we have a Brazilian audio and video forum - of which Erico is part as well - that could be great for you to check out: www.htforum.com.br

 

Also, you just missed a meet we had in São Paulo this weekend! Unfortunately Erico couldn't make it, but I was there with my set. If you live near Rio de Janeiro, feel free to come and listen to my system. I've got an MKI SR-007 which I use with an eXStatA which you could audition. Granted, not as good as a KGSS/HV, WES or BHSE, but should give you an idea of what to expect of a 007. And, if you live nearer to São Paulo, it's worth getting in touch with Erico as sachu said, since he owns what's probably the best headphone system in Brazil.

 

Always nice to see some headphone enthusiast nearby!

 

Cheers!

 

EDIT: Oops! Just noticed you live in São Paulo!


Edited by Leonardo Drummond - 2/2/12 at 7:50am
post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 


So yours was built by Woo, and then you modified it, hence "Woo version"? Or is this an amp you built from scratch and coined it a WES?


The amp was built by me using the same exact design as the WES but naturally improving on the most obvious design issues, namely PSU design and the plate load for the El34's (10M90 CCS).  I also added some noise tweaks and local PSU caps to help with the HF response.  When I'll have some time then it will be fitted to a proper case and use my new stacked version of the BH psu. 

post #49 of 60

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

The amp was built by me using the same exact design as the WES but naturally improving on the most obvious design issues, namely PSU design and the plate load for the El34's (10M90 CCS).  I also added some noise tweaks and local PSU caps to help with the HF response.  When I'll have some time then it will be fitted to a proper case and use my new stacked version of the BH psu. 


So, to be clear, you have not heard the Stax SR-009 with the Woo Audio WES. And yet many who did hear an actual Woo Audio WES with the Stax SR-009 who were impressed have, as you put it, "no point of reference."

 

Just so I'm clear.

 

Yes, I understand it's your shtick: To attempt to strengthen your point, you try to create contrast by forcefully asserting that any opinion not consistent with yours is unmitigated dreck. A lot of people who actually did hear that system in Denver would disagree with your assessment--again, though, your assessment being that the SR-009 does not sound good to you when paired with a specific amp you built (which, again, is not a Woo Audio WES).

post #50 of 60

Jude, I am sure the Woo Audio WES with the 009 is a very good rig based on your extensive time with the setup during your video review -  but did you have the chance to listen to the BHSE 009 combo and compare it with the WES? Did the BHSE sound bright to you in comparison? How about details - did the BHSE bring out more details than the WES? I have ordered the BHSE for my 009, and am thinking about whether I should get some warm EL34 tubes beforehand to make it sound warmer. Your opinion will be much appreciated - thanks in advance! 

post #51 of 60

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by googleli View Post

Jude, I am sure the Woo Audio WES with the 009 is a very good rig based on your extensive time with the setup during your video review -  but did you have the chance to listen to the BHSE 009 combo and compare it with the WES? Did the BHSE sound bright to you in comparison? How about details - did the BHSE bring out more details than the WES? I have ordered the BHSE for my 009, and am thinking about whether I should get some warm EL34 tubes beforehand to make it sound warmer. Your opinion will be much appreciated - thanks in advance! 


I heard the HeadAmp BHSE with the Stax SR-009 in Denver, and I won't attempt a comparison based on the limited meet listening (in meet conditions) with the Woo Audio WES / SR-009 that I lived with for quite a while at home and at work.

 

That said, my impressions from Colorado of the HeadAmp BHSE / SR-009 was that it was also outstanding. And, no, I didn't walk away from it thinking it bright. If I buy an SR-009, I'd be thrilled with either of these amps.

 

I think if one finds the SR-009 bright, neither the BHSE or the WES is going to change one's mind. (With either amp, tuberolling is possible, though, so maybe there's something that could be done there to change one's mind.) And if the SR-009 hasn't struck you as bright, I think you'd find that neither the BHSE or WES is going to make it so.

post #52 of 60

Thanks Jude, that is comforting. For me, the SR009 is not bright at all with my stock Stax SRM727II amp - it is just so detailed overall and I just can't imagine how the BHSE could possibly improve it. Guess I will find out soon... It is certainly brighter than my LCD2 Rev 1 and perhaps my LCD3 too, but the details is just overwhelming when compared with the LCDs. The LCD3 with the Liquid Fire gave me a lot of "meat" and I actually prefer it for some pop songs, when I am listening to these headphones "normally", i.e. straight out my CD player and amps.

 

However, when used with the Smyth Realizer, the difference becomes significant. Although the LCD3 does a very good job imitating a room system with the Relizer, it is no match to the sound stage realism created by the SR009 in comparison. With the LCD3 and realizer, you have a feeling that you are in the room where you did the PRIR. With the SR009 and the Smyth Realizer, you are actually in the room. You have to actually tell yourself constantly that you are not listening to the speakers to realize that you are only listening to the 009. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 


I heard the HeadAmp BHSE with the Stax SR-009 in Denver, and I won't attempt a comparison based on the limited meet listening (in meet conditions) with the Woo Audio WES / SR-009 that I lived with for quite a while at home and at work.

 

That said, my impressions from Colorado of the HeadAmp BHSE / SR-009 was that it was also outstanding. And, no, I didn't walk away from it thinking it bright. If I buy an SR-009, I'd be thrilled with either of these amps.

 

I think if one finds the SR-009 bright, neither the BHSE or the WES is going to change one's mind. (With either amp, tuberolling is possible, though, so maybe there's something that could be done there to change one's mind.) And if the SR-009 hasn't struck you as bright, I think you'd find that neither the BHSE or WES is going to make it so.



 

post #53 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post
And yet many who did hear an actual Woo Audio WES with the Stax SR-009 who were impressed have, as you put it, "no point of reference."

A lot of people who actually did hear that system in Denver would disagree with your assessment--again, though, your assessment being that the SR-009 does not sound good to you when paired with a specific amp you built (which, again, is not a Woo Audio WES).


As one of the people who heard the SR-009 on the WES and BHSE at RMAF, I'm compelled to point out that I wasn't really impressed by the SR-009 on the WES - but then again, the SR-009 itself was a little disappointing to me. My impressions post from RMAF here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/575847/canjam-rmaf-2011-listening-impressions-thread/615#post_7844799

 

Though I haven't heard a SR-009 on my BHSE and source yet (because the source is just as important IMO), at RMAF I thought the HeadAmp system was considerably clearer-sounding than the Woo system with cleaner treble as well, and if I had to choose between them for a "best sound in show" type award, I'd pick the HeadAmp system.

 

In addition to my RMAF experience I've also heard the WES and BHSE driving the OII MKI at a local Colorado meet in 2010. Though there was a different source behind each amp, it was a more controlled and vastly quieter environment as well (almost non-existent meet noise due to a large room and not many people). My impressions from that meet: http://www.head-fi.org/t/507317/8-14-10-denver-co-summer-meet-impressions/15#post_6859914

 

At this point in time I'd say I have no further interest in listening to the WES, and I'm more than happy with the BHSE that I currently own. I'm not in a position to criticize the WES, but on the other hand I really have nothing positive to say about it either - barring an extended at-home audition of course in which my opinion could change, but I really have no interest in doing that now.


Edited by Asr - 2/2/12 at 9:50am
post #54 of 60

^ respect your opinion.. but let me give you an anecdote here.

 

I had heard the O2mk1 on two BHSEs at canjam in 09. I didn't think it was anything special. I have heard the O2 on multiple other amps all under meet conditions since then, never warmed up to it.

 

Then i bought one, spent a good 2 weeks with them being driven by a 007T amp (With the LCD-3 and LCD-2 side my side) and it just dawned on me what you guys were all going on about. Now its the ONLY headphone I use!!! :)

 

Anyways, have fun choosing whatever suits best for you James.  Hit up Erico like Leo echoed since you are living in the same city..Erico's a gentleman. Leo, good to see you active here man. :)

 

 


Edited by sachu - 2/2/12 at 10:27am
post #55 of 60

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

As one of the people who heard the SR-009 on the WES and BHSE at RMAF, I'm compelled to point out that I wasn't really impressed by the SR-009 on the WES - but then again, the SR-009 itself was a little disappointing to me. My impressions post from RMAF here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/575847/canjam-rmaf-2011-listening-impressions-thread/615#post_7844799...


Given that you actually heard the SR-009 with the Woo Audio WES, that was a good and helpful read.

 

For anyone else interested, here are some other impressions from the show (2011 CanJam @ RMAF):

 


 

I may add other links above if I find more after quick scan of that impressions thread.

post #56 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 


So, to be clear, you have not heard the Stax SR-009 with the Woo Audio WES. And yet many who did hear an actual Woo Audio WES with the Stax SR-009 who were impressed have, as you put it, "no point of reference."

 

Just so I'm clear.

 

Yes, I understand it's your shtick: To attempt to strengthen your point, you try to create contrast by forcefully asserting that any opinion not consistent with yours is unmitigated dreck. A lot of people who actually did hear that system in Denver would disagree with your assessment--again, though, your assessment being that the SR-009 does not sound good to you when paired with a specific amp you built (which, again, is not a Woo Audio WES).


So the fact that I made a WES that is better than any Woo have ever shipped disqualifies me from commenting on the sound?  The schematic was drawn up from internal pictures of a half a dozen WES amps so it is identical except I used better parts, better tubes, a better power supply and a plate load that sets a proper operational point for the output tubes so they are running at their full potential.  These are real improvements not trying to push some absurdly expensive capacitors or crap Chinese tubes as improvements.  I know some people believe amps are magical beings and some think the amp builders have some keen insight when building the amps that is lost to all others but this is just BS.  With the circuit diagram in hand and enough knowledge then most amps can be improved dramatically over any commercial offering. 

 

As for meet impressions, they are meaningless at the best of times and at worst give a completely wrong picture of how something sounds.  The only hope in hell for anybody to draw meaningful conclusions in comparing amps is having a transducer they know well and have lived with for a long time.  So how many of those impressed by the system in Denver owned a SR-009 with a Blue Hawaii or a T2? 

post #57 of 60
So, again, we're agreed that it wasn't a Woo Audio WES. You claim yours is different but in a better way, built by you, not Woo. Yes, yes, yours is far superior. I haven't heard yours, so I'm not going to argue you with you about your amp that's not a Woo Audio WES that you don't like with the SR-009.

As for meets: Why bother having them then? You speak of hyberbole, but, in your hostile rants, you bring your own brand of it into your discussions. "Meaningless at the best of times?" Right.

I get it. I think a lot of others get it. You don't like any amp (especially amps for electrostats) not designed by your preferred designer. Everything else is useless. Or thievery, with you resorting to publicly calling another designer of an electrostatic amp a circuit design thief (a post that was deleted), only to have you proven inaccurate (at best) about your accusations.

You're knowledgeable and often helpful, but you seem to abandon reason (and sometimes decency) when you choose your moments to be a pitbull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

So the fact that I made a WES that is better than any Woo have ever shipped disqualifies me from commenting on the sound?  The schematic was drawn up from internal pictures of a half a dozen WES amps so it is identical except I used better parts, better tubes, a better power supply and a plate load that sets a proper operational point for the output tubes so they are running at their full potential.  These are real improvements not trying to push some absurdly expensive capacitors or crap Chinese tubes as improvements.  I know some people believe amps are magical beings and some think the amp builders have some keen insight when building the amps that is lost to all others but this is just BS.  With the circuit diagram in hand and enough knowledge then most amps can be improved dramatically over any commercial offering. 

As for meet impressions, they are meaningless at the best of times and at worst give a completely wrong picture of how something sounds.  The only hope in hell for anybody to draw meaningful conclusions in comparing amps is having a transducer they know well and have lived with for a long time.  So how many of those impressed by the system in Denver owned a SR-009 with a Blue Hawaii or a T2? 
post #58 of 60

children...

post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

children...



err..there is only one person being a child in this thread. I honestly for the love of all that is good don't get why people can't just let other people say what they want without going on a rampage.

 

Yes I am very biased myself and have in the past made very strongly motivated opinions, some in a very negative manner akin to what i am responding to here. 

 

I am more at peace with myself than ever before, but its tiring to see the same old crap being pulled by the same people on multiple threads. For instance, none of the people posting in the negative or questioning Ray Samuels in the Dark Star thread have any intention of hearing the amp let alone buying one. So why friggin bother?  Why do you make it a mission to deter others from buying or putting them down if they already did and are enjoying what they hear? Am I guilty of what i am protesting against here in the past..absolutely..but one also matures, if they so desire to.

 

Why be a killjoy to a hobby which is supposed to be fun.  

 

Leave the politics, animosity , conspiracy theories and ranting to stay on that the other forum. Why bring that negativity here.

 

 

Let people choose what they want. Let them say what they want. If you have an opinion post it in a matter that is not vilifying of anyone  for their opinions or anyone's work.  Why is this so hard to do.

 

Its crap like this that would probably make someone returning to Head-fi or joining Head-fi want to turn and run. 

 

 

Apologies if this post is offensive to anyone. Sucks to see a thread being derailed in such a manner. sigh

 

 

 

 


Edited by sachu - 2/3/12 at 10:25am
post #60 of 60

All of this is rather moot anyways, since a WES or BHSE + 009 is out of this fellow's budget :D 

 

He should definitely stick with the 009 as the king of stats.  I've lived with the 009, 007, 007a, SR-Omega, HE90, and HE60.  The 009 is worth every penny, and is so much more than just a different flavor.  It was the first time I have felt an epiphany of game-changing sound, ever since I heard my first set of high-end cans.  The detail, instrument separation, soundstaging, timber, and bass are astounding.  I'd rather run the 009 through a 717 or some other higher-end Stax amp, than have an 007 with one of the highest priced amps


Edited by El_Doug - 2/3/12 at 10:31am
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