Returning to headfi - Electrostatic Rig suggestions - Page 2  

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingStyles 

I have read that the B.H. with the 009 can have too much high end especially at higher volumes. Doesnt a warmer amp help with this? If this is the case, isnt the WES the best option?

Switching to a less detailed amp is DUMB - it would make far more sense to use the BH and EQ the highs down

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr 

I found the SR-009 (which I heard last year at RMAF briefly) to be more of a different flavor than an improvement per se from the OII - mostly more treble to me. Aside from the treble aspect it wasn't vastly different from the OII MKI.

You're not REALLY making that call off of a single, exceptionally loud meet from over a year ago, are you?  :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 

 

hi James,

 

last year i acquired a solid state Stax amp, the SRM-717, and O2 Mk1's as well as the 009's. so far they cannot touch my 2-channel system at all.......although the 009's do get in the ballpark in terms of lack of veiling.

 

i've ordered both the BHSE and the Aristeaus amps, and should have both within a month or so. i also purchased some NOS metal base Philips EL-34's for the BHSE. my plan is to get all this stuff, listen, and keep what moves me.

 

anyway; since you are looking at the same gear i thought i'd throw in my 2 cents.

 

best regards,

 

Mike

 

Mike, 

With all due respect..i honestly think your quest is pointless. Yes headphones can possibly match and go beyond speakers at a certain price point in one at most two areas. One being detail retrieval, the other being phase coherency. 

But for a music experience as a whole headphones will always fall very short of a decent speaker system, at least in my relatively (to yours) limited experience. 

However, as a secondary rig (and for those quieter times) to supplement a main speaker system, an O2Mk1 system is great. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachu 

Mike, 

 

With all due respect..i honestly think your quest is pointless. Yes headphones can possibly match and go beyond speakers at a certain price point in one at most two areas. One being detail retrieval, the other being phase coherency. 

 

But for a music experience as a whole headphones will always fall very short of a decent speaker system, at least in my relatively (to yours) limited experience. 

 

However, as a secondary rig (and for those quieter times) to supplement a main speaker system, an O2Mk1 system is great. 

 

 

 

Sachu,

and i respect your perspective.....and don't disagree with your logic. you are right, headphones will ultimately not be competitive with my 2-channel speaker system.

OTOH logic and objectivity is not always behind decisions.. i'm just trying to have fun. and i've got a headphone itch i've got to scratch.

if you've got the bucks then the Smyth SVS Realizer can get you a very convincing loudspeaker in a real room experience with headphones - you calibrate for your personal hrtf by setting in the sweet spot of a real room + loudspeaker system (up to 7.1 surround)

http://smyth-research.com/

read the threads here almost everyone who has actually heard the system are impressed - closely examining the objectors posts often reveals they never heard the system at all or never performed a full personal calibration with head angle tracking active

if external soundstage, imaging, duplicating the best real physical loudspeaker + room setups you can get into for ~1/2 hr personal calibration is your greater interest then I would go for the SVS system with "mere" HD-800 or high end Ortho and US$1k amp

you can "collect" personal calibrations at friends, high end dealers listening rooms,  studios - right at the mastering engineer's console

I heard it with the head tracking but not with a full calibration. WIth out full calibration, it was meh. 

I plan on visiting the California dealer for a demo sometime this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n3rdling 

There's no reason to use it without calibration as that's the whole point of the device. With calibration it is amazing.

Clearly as that is their whole point of the realizer. just a pity that at the time when i auditioned it there was a big queue for the full calibration setup.

edit:surprised you don't own one Milos if it is that good..any reason why not other than cost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphinxvc 

Quote:

 

The GES/WES/Liquid Lightning are all inferior to the Gilmore amplifiers, at least according to my ears, so at a minimum, aim for the KGSS/KGSSHV/BHSE with an O2 or 009.

The GES IS a Gilmore designed amp (aka current domain amp), and the WES is it's cousin.

GES is based on my all triode tube amp design. Nothing current domain about it.No solid state in it.

The WES is something very different with chokes as the output stage loads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug 
You're not REALLY making that call off of a single, exceptionally loud meet from over a year ago, are you?  :P

Hey RMAF '11 was just about 3 months ago you know. It wasn't very loud when I tried out the SR-009/BHSE either.

*Never mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr 

I found the SR-009 (which I heard last year at RMAF briefly) to be more of a different flavor than an improvement per se from the OII - mostly more treble to me. Aside from the treble aspect it wasn't vastly different from the OII MKI.

I spent a week with the SR009 recently and would agree with this assessment.  I'd say it's different rather than better than the 007A, and a lot of it will come down to personal preference.  Still waiting on my BHSE, after which we'll do another comparison, so this opinion may change 

I will say the 009 seems much easier to drive than the 007A.  The 009 sounded noticeably clearer to my ears, while the 007A on my GES seems a little veiled and dark in comparison.  I'm quite curious how much a BHSE/KGSSHV caliber amp will clear that up.  This was immediately noticeable with drums and cymbals.  The interesting thing about the 009 is how much detail there is around each individual element/detail in a song.  Everything seems very precisely carved out.

With a 300B preamp behind everything, the soundstage was appreciably larger on the 009.  Very easy to place the positioning of sounds on both headphones.  I preferred what the 007A did with voices, but I'm not a vocals person.  It's a toss-up on string instruments.  I think there's something about the 007A I like a bit more with cello and violin.

The 009 took more attention and energy from me to listen to.  I'm not sure if 'bright' is the right term, but it got tiring after awhile.  I can listen to my 007A for hours and feel completely non-fatigued.  A friend found the detail of the 009 distracting and didn't like it.  The 007A is much more comfortable to wear than the 009.

The 009 is technically the superior headphone, but I find my 007A more liveable with my current rig.  I suspect system synergy and personal preferences will play a pretty critical role here.

Anyway, I can go on for awhile but there's already a big thread on the 009s.  I really think it's worth spending time with both headphones before choosing one.  They are both great and easily outclass any dynamic I've heard, including the LCD-3.

I don't have any technical knowledge to offer, however I'm also building an electrostatic setup and went through something similar.

My budget was a bit higher, around 13'000$ and for the time being I settled for a pair of SR-009 and a Woo WES and still need to decide on a DAC

I was pretty sure about getting the SR-009 but I was completely open for the amp and I must say that it wasn't an easy choice, I'm from a country where if you want to listen to something you have to buy it, import it and listen to it for yourself, so when I buy something I rely purely on online forum and reviews.

I was actually surprised of how little the choice of electrostatic amps was, I originally decided to go for a BHSE but when I realized that there was almost 1 year waiting list and that some people were complaining that the combo SR-009+BHSE was bright I decided to move on.

This is when I posted a listing on headfi saying I was looking for an amp, I did receive a couple of offers from people offering to either build or sell a KGSS(HV) but when I realized that those amps were not commercially available, I quickly moved on, I mean the people seems reliable but let's face it there's no guarantee that a guy building amps in his garage now will still be doing so a year from now and if anything happen, there's no warranty and I'm stuck with a custom built amp in a foreign country, finding someone to repair it will be a pain, I also figured it would be harder to sell if one day I decide to, I'm not saying it's true, it was just my logic.

So I settled for the Woo WES, from what I can read in this thread maybe it wasn't the best choice, but there's also a lot of press online suggesting that the SR-009+WES is an amazing combo, Woo Audio has a good reputation, warranty and they build and deliver in 3 weeks, I do agree that they are overpriced, I also tried to get a discount from them if I was taking a WES+upgrade+SR-009 and what they offered was laughable.

Hopefully this will help a bit.

I can vouch on the WA5 being bad with orthos.  I had one for over a year.  It was a great looking amp and worked quite well with the HD800, but not so much with any other headphone I tried out.  The second I got rid of the HD800 for it's anemic bass and diffuse imaging, the WA5 became pretty much worthless with things like the HE-6 or LCD-2.  Stick to electrostatic headphones and you'll be happy.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer 

For 5K$ then a SR-007 and a KGSS or KGSSHV is the best you can do.  Works brilliantly with the SR-009 as well. 

 

For dynamic headphones I'd stay far away from the WA5.  I'm not a fan of many 300B based amps but the WA5 is especially bad.  High output impedance would work well with the HD800 but the ortho's need an amp that is stable into the given load and a PSU cable of dealing with the back emf.  Very few commercial tube amps can deal with this. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0gwai 

This is when I posted a listing on headfi saying I was looking for an amp, I did receive a couple of offers from people offering to either build or sell a KGSS(HV) but when I realized that those amps were not commercially available, I quickly moved on, I mean the people seems reliable but let's face it there's no guarantee that a guy building amps in his garage now will still be doing so a year from now and if anything happen, there's no warranty and I'm stuck with a custom built amp in a foreign country, finding someone to repair it will be a pain, I also figured it would be harder to sell if one day I decide to, I'm not saying it's true, it was just my logic.

Custom built amps will depend on the skill of the builder, but a KGSS or KGSSHV will not be a hard sale. You could move a BHSE pretty much instantly, but a KGSSHV wouldn't be far behind.