The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio (with binaural headphone surround sound) - Page 3

S/PDIF is the interface, it can be carried via coax (any old RCA cable) or TOSlink (fibre). 

The "worst case" with the Xonar is that you'll send an analog signal out from it, into your amplifier. Nothing wrong with that. I can't find anything authoritative that says no Dolby Headphone via S/PDIF; I do know there's a lot of mythology about S/PDIF "bypassing" a soundcard and a bunch of other nonsense though. I'm skeptical, but it could be entirely possible (such a feature would be a driver problem or restriction, not anything to do with hardware, especially not with your downstream devices). 

Again, if it doesn't work (in which case, please do report back), you can use the analog output and be just fine.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilBuck 

I see, obob said if it was through S/PDIF it would be good to go, so you are saying it depends on the sound card? In the end if I cannot get a definitive answer I will probably just buy the xonar dg to try it since it is so cheap. i haven't bought the whole setup yet (which will probably be a few weeks esp if I go Shiit and have to wait for backorders) but I will report back hopefully with some results if  I do end up doing things that way.

 

Also when someone says S/PDIF, does that just mean any cable that lists itself S/PDIF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilBuck 

I see, obob said if it was through S/PDIF it would be good to go, so you are saying it depends on the sound card? In the end if I cannot get a definitive answer I will probably just buy the xonar dg to try it since it is so cheap. i haven't bought the whole setup yet (which will probably be a few weeks esp if I go Shiit and have to wait for backorders) but I will report back hopefully with some results if  I do end up doing things that way.

 

Also when someone says S/PDIF, does that just mean any cable that lists itself S/PDIF?

There's no technical reason why it can't be done but apparently its a licensing thing with Dolby.

S/PDIF is just a format to send audio data.  In theory you could send it over any kind of cable but it usually uses either an optical cable or a coaxial RCA cable.  I don't know what cards have which types but it should have one or the other.

Brand new user's massive first post warning -

I've been picking up lots of audio equipment for a year or two now, most of it for free from friends/clients. Needless to say, that didn't give me much choice in components when putting my system together, but I think it turned out very very well. Now I'm looking to finally spend a little cash to better suit my system to my habits, those being FPS gaming, anime BD rips on my 9TB RAID media server, and a lot of music (mostly electronic/orchestral but some rock/alt as well.) My current collection is as follows:

Creative X-Fi Titanium Pro (picked up on sale for $20)

JVC RX-6020V receiver (picked up for free from my dad's friend)

Acoustic Research HC6 5.1 system (free from same person)

iPod video (free from a computer client, put in a new battery)

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80s (picked up VERY lightly used for $130)

As you can see, I've got over a grand in equipment for so cheap I'd rather not pay more than $200 on additional amp/DACs. Here's the gear I'm currently considering, in order of interest:
 

FiiO E17

O2

Astro mixamp

ODA/ODAC

I think I've got my virtual surround needs fairly well met by the the X-Fi and the CMSS-Headphone paired with the 770s (opinions on that to follow), though I would definitely consider ditching it and taking the Astro over the FiiO's nice features if Dolby Headphone offers a noticeable improvement over CMSS. I don't do any console gaming at all. I'd really rather not invest in a second pair of headphones, as I find the current Beyers insanely comfortable compared to anything else I've ever tried to fit on my abnormally large head for long periods of time. That's not even mentioning the fact that they're built like a complete tank and survived a year coexisting with 50lbs of school books in my backpack during two seasons of bus travel for rowing regattas. The fact that they're awesome for directional audio and sound excellent are just added bonuses.

I've been playing around with the virtual surround settings and stumbled upon the easy way to counteract the intense muddiness of the bass on the Beyers when in CMSS mode. I've found in BF3 and in anime with 5.1 audio that disabling the sub frequencies entirely via VLC's  Audio>Audio Device>"2 front 2 rear" mode or unchecking the sub in the Windows speaker config utility reduces the overbearing bass for the very low sounds by 1/2 to 2/3 which really makes the Beyers a much more viable option under a PC vs on a console as I suspect MLE was reviewing them. For the more computer savvy users out there, I'm currently trying to find a method for changing audio device/creative console settings/windows speaker config all with one batch script and some .reg files for an easy method to switch all of these software layers over without a 20 click process, and I hope I can get it all functional without losing my mind. I'll probably post up a detailed writeup of all the different windows/creative/application combos and maybe even some recorded samples. What I'd really love from the community though is just a little feedback on a good amp/DAC combo that might improve my virtual surround as well as music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperCzar 

Brand new user's massive first post warning -

CMSS vs Dolby Headphone is often an individual issue because neither is customized to a specific person's HRTF and uses a generic one based on some sort of averaging or modeling.  That means one of them could work better for one person and the other could be better for a different person.  You'll really have to hear it for yourself to find out.

Since you're on a budget you'll probably be ok with out a separate DAC.  A separate amp might help though.  If you're just running the Pro 80s from your X-Fi I'd imagine that it has a fairly high output impedance which will make the Pro 80's bass more boomy and overwhelming than it should be.  Something like the O2 or the ODA if you prefer a more "normal" form factor with a low output impedance will show you how the Pro 80's bass is really supposed to sound and may reduce some of that messing around with the settings.

Some anecdotal experiences with SPDIF: I actually have success outputting Dolby Headphone over SPDIF to an external DAC using the Asus Xonar D1, with the unified drivers, but was not able to with any of the X-Fi based cards I tried (Titanium and X-Fi Forte). 

Quote:

Originally Posted by azncookiecutter 

Some anecdotal experiences with SPDIF: I actually have success outputting Dolby Headphone over SPDIF to an external DAC using the Asus Xonar D1, with the unified drivers, but was not able to with any of the X-Fi based cards I tried (Titanium and X-Fi Forte). 

I've never had any problem outputting CMSS audio over optical.  

Something that I'd like to mention: The Turtle Beach DSS has a perceptible lag.  I dunno it the DSS is just slow or if it's inherent to Dolby Headphone.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos 

I've never had any problem outputting CMSS audio over optical.  

 

Something that I'd like to mention: The Turtle Beach DSS has a perceptible lag.  I dunno it the DSS is just slow or if it's inherent to Dolby Headphone.  

All that stuff comes down to the implementation so the important thing is what works with specific models and possibly specific drivers.

There's also no reason why DH has to have a noticeable delay.  It will always take some time to process but whether a person will ever notice depends on what's doing the processing.  I wonder if all those external DH processors run some purpose built DH chip or if they do it in software with some kind of general purpose processor.  Anyone know if the Mixamp does that too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin 

All that stuff comes down to the implementation so the important thing is what works with specific models and possibly specific drivers.

 

There's also no reason why DH has to have a noticeable delay.  It will always take some time to process but whether a person will ever notice depends on what's doing the processing.  I wonder if all those external DH processors run some purpose built DH chip or if they do it in software with some kind of general purpose processor.  Anyone know if the Mixamp does that too?

The mixamp has very slight delay.  I didn't test it against my DSS when I had the two, so I don't know if they're different.

I thought they used a dolby chip.  In this pic you can see the larger chip on the mixamp looks to have a the "Dolby Digital" logo on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicolom 

The mixamp has very slight delay.  I didn't test it against my DSS when I had the two, so I don't know if they're different.

 

I thought they used a dolby chip.  In this pic you can see the larger chip on the mixamp looks to have a the "Dolby Digital" logo on it.

Interesting.  From the looks of it that Dolby chip is doing all the DSP stuff.  Its still not a completely integrated solution though there could be variations in delay across different models.

I see a Cypress USB interface chip and 2 AKM DAC chips besides a slew of op amps so it looks like the manufacturer still has plenty of work to do in order to come up with a good product.

Awesome write up Nameless, no doubt I was one of the people you had to repeat yourself too. 

Not sure if I talked to you about this other day, but I was really disappointed with my purchase of AD700's. 

I was disappointed because I sold my G35's expecting the AD700's to be much more accurate in COD4. I was wrong, no matter what settings I used in windows and in COD4, the AD700 did not come near the G35's.

Now I found this really odd, because with my G35's I didn't install any drivers and the accuracy in COD4 was pretty amazing. So I had myself asking does the G35's on board processor still work if I had not installed the drivers? 

And what exactly does the surround sound option do? Because when I did install the drivers the sound was much more clear/accurate with the surround sound button off.

So I purchased a second hand Asus Xonar D1 to try with my AD700's and tried all sorts of combinations. All of them except one so far has yielded poor results.

The combination of settings I am on currently is:

Windows XP audio settings set to 5.1 Surround sound speakers

COD4: Audio setting set to 5.1 Speakers

Xonar D1 Audio Center settings set to: 5.1 Speakers 

Now I am still wondering if there is any better settings as the sound is roughly the same as my G35's without a dedicated sound card and without drivers installed!

Should I be using Dolby Pro Logic IIx?

Should I be using 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter?

Should I be using the GX button? and what exactly does it do?

Should I tweak some settings in the equalizer? 

Sorry for the ton of questions, some of which may seem obvious to you. I have tried researching but the sheer amount of differing information out there is insane.

Correct me if I'm missing something here, but what's to stop me from diverting the software layer processing of CMSS to any external DAC I like by going to recording devices>"What U Hear">Properties>Listen>Listen to this device>Select my DAC from the drop down? From what I understand, that recording device is just the software processed output before it's fed to the X-Fi. They wouldn't make it go out to the X-Fi and then back in through the same card again, would they? Entirely native solution in Windows 7 and Creative drivers, bypasses all the circuitry on the soundcard and pipes it to any high quality exterior DAC I like complete with the CMSS surround I liked on the X-Fi? I mean, isn't that the perfect solution right there?

I have been playing Skyrim on my GTX580 SLI based PC, and found that there is an annoying sound coming from my speakers while playing. This does not happen with other games. I use a Pioneer SC-LX 85 Flagship Receiver to connect one of my GTX580s which outputs to a 7-channel power amplifier then my speakers. Any solution for this? I really like Skyrim, and with my computer setup, I really don't want to play it on 360 or PS3, although I own both. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperCzar 

Correct me if I'm missing something here, but what's to stop me from diverting the software layer processing of CMSS to any external DAC I like by going to recording devices>"What U Hear">Properties>Listen>Listen to this device>Select my DAC from the drop down? From what I understand, that recording device is just the software processed output before it's fed to the X-Fi. They wouldn't make it go out to the X-Fi and then back in through the same card again, would they? Entirely native solution in Windows 7 and Creative drivers, bypasses all the circuitry on the soundcard and pipes it to any high quality exterior DAC I like complete with the CMSS surround I liked on the X-Fi? I mean, isn't that the perfect solution right there?

Nothing really.  Apparently that works with the Creative cards.