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The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio (with binaural headphone surround sound) - Page 183

post #2731 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominiel View Post
 

I'm using the Asus Xonar xense and the Logitech G930 via USB (a 7.1 headset). So, if I wanted to use the ASUS DSP for my headset and done those steps... BUT... one question prevails... Do I need to switch on 7.1 Dolby Headphone at the Logitech Gaming Software (means the driver for the headset), or only in the Xonar Xense Audio Center?

 

btw... awesome guide!

The Logitech G930 is going through USB and is using its own drivers which means it is acting like a stand-alone sound card. This means you aren't using the Xonar card for anything at all. If you want to use any of the features of the Xense, you need to actually have your headphones going through that card, which means no USB headset will work.

post #2732 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post

The Logitech G930 is going through USB and is using its own drivers which means it is acting like a stand-alone sound card. This means you aren't using the Xonar card for anything at all. If you want to use any of the features of the Xense, you need to actually have your headphones going through that card, which means no USB headset will work.
Maybe output via stereo mix w/ the sniper method? Might work or might fail spectacularly. smily_headphones1.gif
post #2733 of 3161

yeah, did work

 

just wanted to know if I need to switch surround-mode on

nope... didn't need to... nasty reverb in games...

 

thus: works fine by stereo mix/wave listen mode :)

post #2734 of 3161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

THIEF is coming out in less than a week. Who of you has a True Audio compatible AMD card? 

 

Well, now it's out, and they defied my expectations...of how much worse it could get.

 

They butchered the gameplay! They butchered the mythos! And now, it's confirmed for full-on DmC in terms of painfully edgy writing!

 

 

Sorry, guys, but unless I get this one for free, any AstoundSound evaluation sans TrueAudio DSP will have to wait. That's just not worth it, no way.

post #2735 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEleventy View Post



Optical out is the "cleaner" less processed option. Most of the time, unless you paid for a high end sound card, the external DAC will be better sound quality wise.
Combo units are convenient but isn't as upgrade friendly. The modular approach allows for a better upgrade path. But if you don't plan on upgrading, then the combo units are better.

 

I think I am almost done with all my research...

 

So lets say that I am going to go with a pair of Phillips Fidelio X1's or the DT990s.... what is going to be my best course of action? Keep my sound card, get a better one, add in a dac, just use the dac with the sound card? I would say at minimum it should require an amp, especially for the DT990s. From what I can gather:

 

Use my current sound card, optical out to a DAC with optical in

DAC out to AMP

AMP to headphones

 

Would this be the best? And like I asked earlier, would optical out from the sound card really be better than the outputting method to a USB DAC? I am just worried because I know that optical out from the sound card with surround sound, as far as I remember, then requires use of something like Dolby Live! unless I am quite mistaken.

 

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-digital-live.html

 

I know I used to use Dolby Live! with my receiver, but that was long ago. Not sure if Dolby Live! is required if using CMSS-3D or what. Gets kind of confusing with all this hardware and software.

post #2736 of 3161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayn View Post

I think I am almost done with all my research...

 

So lets say that I am going to go with a pair of Phillips Fidelio X1's or the DT990s.... what is going to be my best course of action? Keep my sound card, get a better one, add in a dac, just use the dac with the sound card? I would say at minimum it should require an amp, especially for the DT990s. From what I can gather:

 

Use my current sound card, optical out to a DAC with optical in

DAC out to AMP

AMP to headphones

 

Would this be the best? And like I asked earlier, would optical out from the sound card really be better than the outputting method to a USB DAC? I am just worried because I know that optical out from the sound card with surround sound, as far as I remember, then requires use of something like Dolby Live! unless I am quite mistaken.

 

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-digital-live.html

 

I know I used to use Dolby Live! with my receiver, but that was long ago. Not sure if Dolby Live! is required if using CMSS-3D or what. Gets kind of confusing with all this hardware and software.

 

You're confusing requirements for getting virtual surround out of console games (ala Mad Lust Envy's thread) with the requirements for PC games.

 

For PC games, you DON'T NEED Dolby Digital or DTS encoding at all; it can already pre-mix it into CMSS-3D Headphone/Dolby Headphone/SBX Pro Surround/etc. before piping the processed two-channel stream out through S/PDIF (or through Stereo Mix/"What U Hear") and into an external DAC.

 

The only reason I'd see for anyone possibly wanting to do that is to have an X-Fi card pipe Dolby Digital into an external Dolby Headphone processor should they like that tech better. (I happen to prefer CMSS-3D Headphone, so I don't see the point, and buying a C-Media card from Asus or HT Omega would be a much more straightforward way to get Dolby Headphone.)

post #2737 of 3161

Ok thank you, I was getting confused. I know that I used to use Dolby Live! when I had a receiver many years ago before HDMI. It used to have to take the uncompressed audio from a game, convert it to Dolby surround sound, and send it via the optical audio to the receiver. I guess it makes sense that headphones would not require this with CMSS-3D.

 

So if I go from my internal sound card to a DAC with the optical, what exactly does that do? Just reduces line noise? Wouldn't I only do that if I had problems in the first place? How much of a difference would it make? I tried looking up information on the output of the sound card, not much is mentioned of headphone amplification, so I would assume it would require some sort of external amp to power anything good.

 

Lets say I am deciding between the X1 or the DT990... so I can PROBABLY keep the current sound card. I would just need an amp and MAYBE a DAC, if you think the difference is that big. Is there that much of a difference between the X1 and DT990 250ohm Pro in reference to amps? The X1 seems better for gaming slightly, but there is approximately a $100 difference in price. I saw the X1 on sale on Amazon in January for $150, too bad I didn't pick that up...

 

Edit: So apparently my x-fi card does NOT have headphone amplification. Not sure how much the X1 needs, but apparently it does pretty well unamped. I was looking at maybe getting a new sound card with a better built in amp, but apparently Creative moved from cmss-3d to sbx, which people say is inferior to cmss-3d. This makes it even more complicated on what I need to purchase :p


Edited by Slayn - 2/25/14 at 10:30pm
post #2738 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayn View Post
 

Ok thank you, I was getting confused. I know that I used to use Dolby Live! when I had a receiver many years ago before HDMI. It used to have to take the uncompressed audio from a game, convert it to Dolby surround sound, and send it via the optical audio to the receiver. I guess it makes sense that headphones would not require this with CMSS-3D.

 

So if I go from my internal sound card to a DAC with the optical, what exactly does that do? Just reduces line noise? Wouldn't I only do that if I had problems in the first place? How much of a difference would it make? I tried looking up information on the output of the sound card, not much is mentioned of headphone amplification, so I would assume it would require some sort of external amp to power anything good.

 

Lets say I am deciding between the X1 or the DT990... so I can PROBABLY keep the current sound card. I would just need an amp and MAYBE a DAC, if you think the difference is that big. Is there that much of a difference between the X1 and DT990 250ohm Pro in reference to amps? The X1 seems better for gaming slightly, but there is approximately a $100 difference in price. I saw the X1 on sale on Amazon in January for $150, too bad I didn't pick that up...

 

Edit: So apparently my x-fi card does NOT have headphone amplification. Not sure how much the X1 needs, but apparently it does pretty well unamped. I was looking at maybe getting a new sound card with a better built in amp, but apparently Creative moved from cmss-3d to sbx, which people say is inferior to cmss-3d. This makes it even more complicated on what I need to purchase :p

You can still buy the X-Fi Titanium HD on amazon..that is what I did and tossed the ZX-R card.

post #2739 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorwayne View Post
 

You can still buy the X-Fi Titanium HD on amazon..that is what I did and tossed the ZX-R card.

 

That has headphone amplification, but does not have cmss3d, correct? From what people say the newer 3d technology, SBX or something, isn't quite as good.

post #2740 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post
 

 

 (I happen to prefer CMSS-3D Headphone, so I don't see the point, and buying a C-Media card from Asus or HT Omega would be a much more straightforward way to get Dolby Headphone.)

What are your reasons for preferring CMSS-3D over Dolby?

post #2741 of 3161

I just had a revelation... I have an Onkyo TX-SR606, wouldn't that be suitable? I originally bought it because it had analog inputs, so I could go straight from the sound card to the receiver and get full 7.1 in games. I don't use it anymore because I've moved from full speakers to headphones. Couldn't I just connect my computer to my receiver and use that? I would assume it would be able to amp up most headphones no problem and that the DAC is probably at least better than an internal sound card. What would be the best way to ouput to the receiver for use with cmss-3d? And would this even be a good idea? Would save me money not having to buy a dac/amp.

post #2742 of 3161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayn View Post

That has headphone amplification, but does not have cmss3d, correct? From what people say the newer 3d technology, SBX or something, isn't quite as good.

 

You got it mixed up again. SBX Pro Surround is on the newer Z-series cards; the X-Fi Titanium HD uses CMSS-3D Headphone in Game Mode and THX TruStudio Surround in Entertainment Mode.

 

If headphone amplification is really that big of a deal to you, I'd suggest budgeting for an external amp.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidboy17 View Post

What are your reasons for preferring CMSS-3D over Dolby?

 

It just sounds better in terms of positional audio cues to me, particularly in DirectSound3D/OpenAL-enabled games where you get a full 3D soundscape instead of just virtual 7.1.

 

This isn't to say Dolby Headphone is a bad technology by any means - I keep the SU-DH1 around for console gaming, after all - but having compared the two directly (using my X-Fi cards and the SU-DH1 itself as the DAC for both instances), I find that CMSS-3D gives me a positional edge.

post #2743 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidboy17 View Post

What are your reasons for preferring CMSS-3D over Dolby?
When I was choosing between the X-Fi Titanium HD and Xonar STX more than a year ago, the question I wanted to answer was simply CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone. When I got to compare side by side, I noticed a slight advantage with CMSS-3D when it came to separation and soundstage depth. Since my focus was on competitive FPS gaming, that made it very easy to go with the X-Fi card with CMSS-3D. That being said, I wouldn't have been unhappy with the STX and Dolby Headphone.
post #2744 of 3161

Yeah I am doing all this research and getting a bit muddled....

 

I think my plan is wait for a good price on the Phillips, they seem good. Try it with my current sound card. Don't like it? I'll try to hook up my Onkyo via toslink. Don't like that? Will figure out a good amp/dac. It should work fine with an Onkyo receiver though correct? I am correct in my assumption that it should be an acceptable DAC/amp for what I need? And using the soundcard to output via toslink is acceptable?

post #2745 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post
 

 

It just sounds better in terms of positional audio cues to me, particularly in DirectSound3D/OpenAL-enabled games where you get a full 3D soundscape instead of just virtual 7.1.

 

This isn't to say Dolby Headphone is a bad technology by any means - I keep the SU-DH1 around for console gaming, after all - but having compared the two directly (using my X-Fi cards and the SU-DH1 itself as the DAC for both instances), I find that CMSS-3D gives me a positional edge.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post


When I was choosing between the X-Fi Titanium HD and Xonar STX more than a year ago, the question I wanted to answer was simply CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone. When I got to compare side by side, I noticed a slight advantage with CMSS-3D when it came to separation and soundstage depth. Since my focus was on competitive FPS gaming, that made it very easy to go with the X-Fi card with CMSS-3D. That being said, I wouldn't have been unhappy with the STX and Dolby Headphone.

It sounds like both of you use the CMSS-3D for competitive gaming like FPS. Should I go with that if I was planning on being immersed in my games and had less focus on FPSs? And what card would you guys suggest if I was using the Philips Fidelio X1 with no dedicated amp?

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