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The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio (with binaural headphone surround sound) - Page 89

post #1321 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post

I think I got a stupid question here, but I've heard there's no such thing as a stupid question. Right guys? Right?

 

Anyway, I have an X-Fi Titanium HD with an AD700 hooked up to it. Will be moving onto the AKG K702 that will be amped by a FiiO E09K. My questions is do I hook the amp up to the sound card by way of the headphone jack or should it now hook up to the RCA connections on the sound card?

The Ti-HD's (Titanium HD) RCA output should provide a slightly cleaner analog audio signal, then the Ti-HD's headphone jack, when connecting the Ti-HD to an external headphone amplifier.

post #1322 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by raband View Post

I've got mine hooked up to the amp via RCA to 3.5mm cable.

(the amp only has a 3.5mm input - if it had RCA inputs I'd use them)

 

(X-Fi->RCA/3.5mm->O2amp)

I don't think that's right. The E09K definitely has RCA line in. I think you may be talking about the previous E9 model.

 

Edit: I'm an idiot. You're just saying you use the RCA output on your card and you have to hook up to your O2 because the line in is 3.5mm. Gotcha.


Edited by roguegeek - 2/12/13 at 6:49pm
post #1323 of 3059

After owning Titanium HD and AKG Q701 for some time now I can confirm the superb positional audio of Battlefield 2. It truly sounds like real life, real 3D sound not limited to 6 or 8 channels. It amazes me every time. It's gotten so good I can just sit in a bush and shoot people without ever seeing them. It really is like a wall-hack but with sound.

post #1324 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ban13 View Post

After owning Titanium HD and AKG Q701 for some time now I can confirm the superb positional audio of Battlefield 2. It truly sounds like real life, real 3D sound not limited to 6 or 8 channels. It amazes me every time. It's gotten so good I can just sit in a bush and shoot people without ever seeing them. It really is like a wall-hack but with sound.

Sold! Very competitive BF3'er here, although I'll be going with the K702 which is the same thing. 

post #1325 of 3059

just bought the Samson SR850, using it with the X-Fi Titanium 7.1

and ill tell you one thing is for certain..

i have a lot of experience in competitive fps, and there is nothing better for it than STEREO!

no 5.1 no 7.1 or any other dolby ****.

the only way my ears can decide where some noise came from is Stereo.. maybe im used to it but  when you look at it in a logical perspective: WE CANT HEAR 7.1 FROM HEADPHONES.

unless we had ears around our entire head.

we have right and left. and that's how we naturally decide.

SO STFU WITH THAT ********, makes people waste money for nothing.

 

sorry for lots of caps, but i had to make my point :)

post #1326 of 3059
Hey, I'm about to buy a Titanium HD. From reading through this thread, this card is still the best for gaming? I was thinking of an Esscense ST/STX, but the I think the Titanium HD is nearly as good. Any advice before I buy this? Does the surround sound work well with Valve games? And does it affect Skype? (Dolby Headphone on my DG ruined the sound of Skype completely) Also, will I have any driver problems? I'm on Windows 8 64-Bit.



Thanks
post #1327 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by David164v8 View Post

Hey, I'm about to buy a Titanium HD. From reading through this thread, this card is still the best for gaming? I was thinking of an Esscense ST/STX, but the I think the Titanium HD is nearly as good. Any advice before I buy this? Does the surround sound work well with Valve games? And does it affect Skype? (Dolby Headphone on my DG ruined the sound of Skype completely) Also, will I have any driver problems? I'm on Windows 8 64-Bit.



Thanks

My understanding at this point is it's mostly a difference of whether you want to process your sound using CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone and whether or not you want proper compatibility with older games or not. If you like CMSS-3D and want to ensure compatibility with older games, the X-Fi Titanium HD is for you. If you like Dolby Headphone, pick up the Xonar STX. I didn't care about being compatible with older games, but I still tried both before deciding I preferred CMSS-3D. Went with the Titanium HD and couldn't be happier. There's no right or wrong here. It's just a personal decision based on your tastes.


Edited by roguegeek - 2/14/13 at 10:17am
post #1328 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pric0 View Post

just bought the Samson SR850, using it with the X-Fi Titanium 7.1

and ill tell you one thing is for certain..

i have a lot of experience in competitive fps, and there is nothing better for it than STEREO!

no 5.1 no 7.1 or any other dolby ****.

the only way my ears can decide where some noise came from is Stereo.. maybe im used to it but  when you look at it in a logical perspective: WE CANT HEAR 7.1 FROM HEADPHONES.

unless we had ears around our entire head.

we have right and left. and that's how we naturally decide.

SO STFU WITH THAT ********, makes people waste money for nothing.

 

sorry for lots of caps, but i had to make my point :)

Have a listen to tracks 20 and 21 here https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HX090368035561 (just in straight stereo through your headphones - no effects/processing etc from your card)

 

Can you hear the voices position being anywhere other than exactly left or right? Everybody else I've had listen to the tracks has.

 

That's the same effect that everyone else gets from the card you have with it converting a surround signal to stereo headphones.

 

If you get the effect from the tracks above and would like similar accuracy when playing games, watching movies etc then we might be able to help you set your system up properly.

 

If you can't hear anything other than a left/right sound in the above track then I'm afraid theres something about you individually that is different from 99% of everyone else.

 

If you can hear the position in the tracks, but would still rather just use stereo then that's fine and up to you, but the positional audio is real for everyone else and not a waste of money.

 

edit: those tracks were recorded binaurally - with 2 microphones - one where each ear would be. That way, when the audio is played back each ear hears what it would have heard in real life - more sound from the ear that the noise is coming from and slightly less from the other ear. That's how our brains process the sounds we hear to work out position and distances in real life. What the soundcards etc do is take a surround audio signal and do the same sort of processing. With the right signal being fed to the processor the right processor it actually can be a lot more accurate and precise than 5.1/7.1 etc - it can give our brains the true amount of sound to each ear to let the brain process it as real, spacial audio.

 

If you're not getting that effect at all and are still only hearing stereo (or the positioning is all muddled) then it's more likely that a few settings in windows or on the card need to be adjusted. If you are hearing the positional cues, but still rather the stereo sound imaging then that's fine - personal preference, but there are 89 pages of discussion on this thread alone from people who have got it set up and working and wouldn't swap it for the world.


Edited by raband - 2/14/13 at 2:31pm
post #1329 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pric0 View Post

just bought the Samson SR850, using it with the X-Fi Titanium 7.1
and ill tell you one thing is for certain..
i have a lot of experience in competitive fps, and there is nothing better for it than STEREO!
no 5.1 no 7.1 or any other dolby ****.
the only way my ears can decide where some noise came from is Stereo.. maybe im used to it but  when you look at it in a logical perspective: WE CANT HEAR 7.1 FROM HEADPHONES.
unless we had ears around our entire head.
we have right and left. and that's how we naturally decide.
SO STFU WITH THAT ********, makes people waste money for nothing.

sorry for lots of caps, but i had to make my point smily_headphones1.gif
You're getting things mixed up. It's true that we only have two ears, so you should only need stereo audio for fully realistic sound.

But unless the game engine is rendering 3D binaural sound designed for headphones (most do not) you will have poor positional cues, and you will likely have audio pan hard from left-to-right in a completely unnatural way if you are only using stereo sound.

If the game engine renders 5.1/7.1 surround though, the right soundcard can take that positional data, and process it into a binaural stereo signal designed for headphone listening, giving you considerably better positioning and a more realistic sound field.

The best thing would be for the game engine itself to render 3D audio designed for headphones itself, as that would provide even better positioning than 7.1 (7.1 audio produces a flat sound field in a ring around you, and doesn't account for height) but most games now seem to be moving away from 3D audio and towards 5.1/7.1 for home theater setups these days due to the popularity of games consoles with cheap HTIB setups.
post #1330 of 3059
Raband, StudioSound,
You guys could've just pointed pric0 to my article on virtual surround smily_headphones1.gif The proof is in the pudding: the science is explained AND there are a few demos to try it out, switching from stereo to virtual surround. He (and anyone else) can see for himself.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400

If I remember correctly, however, this pric0 was in Mad's thread like 8 months ago saying the same stuff he is now. I think he is either one of the unfortunate who can't hear virtual surround, or he just doesn't want to believe. IMO he can say whatever he likes, since the science is proven and demonstrable, and since he won't convince others by poor writing and swearing anyway.
post #1331 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by David164v8 View Post

Hey, I'm about to buy a Titanium HD. From reading through this thread, this card is still the best for gaming? I was thinking of an Esscense ST/STX, but the I think the Titanium HD is nearly as good. Any advice before I buy this? Does the surround sound work well with Valve games? And does it affect Skype? (Dolby Headphone on my DG ruined the sound of Skype completely) Also, will I have any driver problems? I'm on Windows 8 64-Bit.

The Titanium HD's headphone output jack has an impedance of 35-Ohms :(.

So depending on the headphones used, adding an external headphone amplifier might be advisable

post #1332 of 3059
Any idea on the output impedance of the STX and the new Creative Z and ZxR?
post #1333 of 3059

thanks for the replies fellas..

ill try to answer as much as possible:

 

@raband - i do hear and can decide clearly which side the voice is coming from in these tracks, using stereo.

@the - my headphones themselves are stereo, either i cant set this up well or it isnt possible.

@evshrug - it wasnt 8 months ago lol, and as weird as it may sound, in the vid you posted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dcB9faNrz_M#!

i hear better when the cmss3d is off (according to the vid).

when it's on, it sounds blury and i cant pinpoint the location, but when its not on, i know exactly where the grenade exploded or the footsteps came from.

usually when i play i turn my mouse with the player facing to the side of the noise, so ill hear exactly where it came from (left or right),

it's kind of a disadvantage, that's why i wanted to upgrade, though it doesnt help much.

 

overall, i tested it around, and i just cant tell where shots or footsteps come from when it's not on stereo.. maybe it's just me.

it's not that i cant hear well, before my buyings, i used a 5.4$ headset (im not kidding, silverlines headset), and it was all fine and.

i just dont feel like the headphones+ the soundcard i bought contributed to my gaming needs (but i dont regret my purchases, cause the sound card is awesome for music and and flac/wav files in particualr, and the same for the headphones which are great aswell)/

just need to up my game a bit, and to maybe hear footsteps from bigger distances, which didnt do the trick, and as i mentioned before - stereo is good cause i actually feel like a little bump in the right/left side whenever a sound comes from that particular sound WHEN I USE STEREO. not when i use surround - which i cant decide where the hell the sound came from.

 

not blaming anyone so dont crucify me here :)


Edited by pric0 - 2/15/13 at 11:59pm
post #1334 of 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by pric0 View Post

@raband - i do hear and can decide clearly which side the voice is coming from in these tracks, using stereo.

 

not blaming anyone so dont crucify me here :)

You should be able to hear more than which side - it should sound as if he's right behind you, whispering in you ear - the effect is so strong on these tracks it makes the hairs stand up on my neck. If you're not getting that then I'm afraid there may be something different with your hearing.
 
You are pretty much blaming everyone here saying that it's impossible to hear surround through stereo headphones and telling them to stop costing people money on equipment that doesn't work.
 
You are totally wrong - it does work - we can hear surround through the stereo equipment we have. You should change your original post from 
"we can't hear" to "I (meaning you) can't hear"
and
"it doesn't work - it's impossible etc" to "it doesn't work for me"

Edited by raband - 2/16/13 at 12:25am
post #1335 of 3059

the thing is, im pretty sure my hearing is fine, but what im not sure, is about how ive setup the sound system.

since when i check the sound through the creative console: http://i.imgur.com/dCfVKcB.png

i can hear a sound only when the bar is on the top left and the top right speaker sign.

it's the same for any sound setting (2/4/5/7).

 

what could possibly be wrong? or should it be that way?

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