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Objective 2 vs Matrix M-Stage - Page 2

post #16 of 50

Audio is just such a general area to audition, especially with such a broad range of ears. I just received my O2 amp and tried it out today with my hd650's and my god do they sound beautiful. Not that my zo2 couldnt push them, but i just wanted something for the desk to use, and this for sure will be used for that. Slow cheetah or wet sand by the red hot chili peppers sounded beautiful!!! like i was there in the recording studio with them.

post #17 of 50

The "sound of distortion, non-flat frequency response/coloration, and poor crosstalk" are just not audible to many of us, just to test equipment.

 

Dogwan is simply using his ears and equipment to form an opinion instead of staring at a datasheet.

 

Not saying that the Mini3 is perfect, just that there's no crime in liking the sound of one piece of equipment over another, just preference.

 

 

 

 

post #18 of 50

 

Quote:
The "sound of distortion, non-flat frequency response/coloration, and poor crosstalk" are just not audible to many of us, just to test equipment.

 

Obviously, they are audible. Because that's what your hearing when comparing the Mini3 to the O2. 

 

Literally, you are hearing distortion. If you like that, then cool, it's all subjective, but do understand what your hearing. 

 

As far as "tube distortion" vs "Solid state distortion".. 

 

well, the 02 has completely inaudible amounts of distortion, therefore is "distortion free" be it 3rd harmonic or any other. 

 

The tubes on the other hand, have audible distortion. So again, your enjoying the distortion. That's ok, but don't kid yourself. 

 

The 02 is basically a perfect wire with gain. It is the "benchmark" of what wire with gain should be. Anything that sounds different is distortion. Period. See the o2 thread were people compare it to the B22, and GS-1 favorably. 

 

If your source is lacking, the 02 certainly will not do you any favors. It will all come though. 

Fact is, most of us are brainwashed by years of distortion and purposly funky frequency response. 


Edited by MikeW - 2/6/12 at 1:11pm
post #19 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post

 

 

Obviously, they are audible. Because that's what your hearing when comparing the Mini3 to the O2. 

 

Literally, you are hearing distortion. If you like that, then cool, it's all subjective, but do understand what your hearing. 

 

As far as "tube distortion" vs "Solid state distortion".. 

 

well, the 02 has completely inaudible amounts of distortion, therefore is "distortion free" be it 3rd harmonic or any other. 

 

The tubes on the other hand, have audible distortion. So again, your enjoying the distortion. That's ok, but don't kid yourself. 

 

The 02 is basically a perfect wire with gain. It is the "benchmark" of what wire with gain should be. Anything that sounds different is distortion. Period. See the o2 thread were people compare it to the B22, and GS-1 favorably. 

 

If your source is lacking, the 02 certainly will not do you any favors. It will all come though. 

Fact is, most of us are brainwashed by years of distortion and purposly funky frequency response. 


You know, this is exactly why I've stayed out of the fray over the O2.

 

I noticed, even before I built one, the propensity of O2 fans to take self-righteous stands against anyone who dares to express that they don't really care for the amp. Whatever the reasons.

 

I now offer up my closing statement:

I like vinyl with all its clicks and pops. I like tubes with all their mushy warmth, and I like some of my gear that is known to have some distortion or other artifacts. I like what I like.  I don't like the O2 as much I like the M-stage.

Out of respect for the designer and his theories I've decided to not tinker with my O2 like I usually do with other gear. I plan on keeping it and using it as is because it does have its place. Take my opinion for what it is, an opinion.

 

Hopefully I've done the OP the service of responding to his request for an opinion. I think I did a pretty good job of expressing my preference as just my opinion and avoided making definitive statements.

 

-Dogwan

post #20 of 50

 

Agreed. I am a huge fan of the O2 for what it is but I don't just understand the fanatical nature of some of the owners and the joy they like to take at bashing other people's opinions. Going to leave it as it is as there are more than enough threads that have went down the drain with this religious war.

 

Bottom line, the OP is fine with either amp as long has you don't have some extremely demanding headphones such as an HE-6.

 


Edited by francisdemarte - 2/6/12 at 2:58pm
post #21 of 50

Oh, but your guys' opinions are so darn amusing. :P

 

I'll compare the ODA to the M-Stage when it's ready. . . 

post #22 of 50

I can see the M-stage being competitive with the O2. But not the mini3.

 

I've never heard an M-stage so I can't offer a comparison subjective or otherwise. I know the 02 is better then the Mini3, and better then my 500$ /w 300$ worth of accessories EF5. Which will find itself for sale pretty soon. I've also owned a Headroom Hybrid, and Headroom Micro, Jds Cmoy. It's also better then any of those.


Edited by MikeW - 2/6/12 at 5:03pm
post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by francisdemarte View Post

 

Agreed. I am a huge fan of the O2 for what it is but I don't just understand the fanatical nature of some of the owners and the joy they like to take at bashing other people's opinions. Going to leave it as it is as there are more than enough threads that have went down the drain with this religious war.

 

Bottom line, the OP is fine with either amp as long has you don't have some extremely demanding headphones such as an HE-6.

 


This fanatical stuff is due to the owners buying into the hype and feeling that the o2 is what neutral should sound like even though some of them haven't even tried the highest end audiophile amps aimed towards neutrality. As for me, I am also very intrigued at the thought that they are supposedly a wire with gain amp but can't really believe it 100% yet since there are people that have heard a lot of better stuff that say that the O2 is nothing special.

 

post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post


This fanatical stuff is due to the owners buying into the hype and feeling that the o2 is what neutral should sound like even though some of them haven't even tried the highest end audiophile amps aimed towards neutrality. As for me, I am also very intrigued at the thought that they are supposedly a wire with gain amp but can't really believe it 100% yet since there are people that have heard a lot of better stuff that say that the O2 is nothing special.

I have heard (and owned a few) portable amps that re more expensive than O2. I won't say O2 is the be-all-end-all of all portable amp, but it is a great sounding amp of its price and compared really well with amp that easiest cost twice its price (assuming a pre-built O2 of around $150). It is a really good sounding amp , though more of a transportable than it is portable. Regardless, it is not a hype for me.
post #25 of 50

it's completely true that the "fanatical" O2 supporters will perceive the O2 to be neutral even if it isn't. it's also true in the same way that people who spend $2k on a reference amp will perceive it to be more neutral than a $150 amp, even if it isn't.

 

at the end of the day, if I had to believe something, I'd rather believe measurements.

 

and there's still the blind O2 challenge out there

Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post


This fanatical stuff is due to the owners buying into the hype and feeling that the o2 is what neutral should sound like even though some of them haven't even tried the highest end audiophile amps aimed towards neutrality. As for me, I am also very intrigued at the thought that they are supposedly a wire with gain amp but can't really believe it 100% yet since there are people that have heard a lot of better stuff that say that the O2 is nothing special.

 



 

post #26 of 50

 

Quote:
This fanatical stuff is due to the owners buying into the hype and feeling that the o2 is what neutral should sound like even though some of them haven't even tried the highest end audiophile amps aimed towards neutrality. As for me, I am also very intrigued at the thought that they are supposedly a wire with gain amp but can't really believe it 100% yet since there are people that have heard a lot of better stuff that say that the O2 is nothing special.

 

 

 

yeah, then there are the people who a/b vs GS-1, and Vioelectric HPA-200 and say there's no significant difference. There's an HPA-200 for sale right now in the f/s forum because the owner did not see the value in comparison. There will be an EF5 there soon, for the same reason.

 

For someone to even take the time to compare an 85$ amp vs a 1000$ amp, sounds pretty damn special to me. I've been around for awhile, i dident just sign up yesterday. I've heard a few things, my Headroom Hybrid was ~1050$ with the desktop power supply and stepped attenuator upgrades. the o2 is better then it ever was. Im actually a little disapointed, I was hoping the O2 would not be as good as it is. Because, as a hobby, were the heck am i supposed to go from here? I love building amps and tinkering.. but the o2 is pretty much the end of the line. Regardless of rather I want to believe that or not. Numbers don't lie, it is what it is. get over it

 

As much as I enjoy this hobby, im not an idiot, i can't ignore the hard facts. Guess i could bury my head in the sand.. but i've never really been that type. If you don't like the o2, then you don't like your source, because all the o2 is, is your source with gain.


Edited by MikeW - 2/6/12 at 10:52pm
post #27 of 50

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellsprout View Post

it's completely true that the "fanatical" O2 supporters will perceive the O2 to be neutral even if it isn't. it's also true in the same way that people who spend $2k on a reference amp will perceive it to be more neutral than a $150 amp, even if it isn't.

 

at the end of the day, if I had to believe something, I'd rather believe measurements.

 

and there's still the blind O2 challenge out there


That's pretty much what I would say, except instead of saying that I'd "rather believe measurements," I'd say that I find non-level matched, non-blind comparisons of audio gear (almost all of head-fi listening impressions unfortunately) very difficult to take at face value. At least, if set up properly, the scope and audio analyzer will give you valid data, with which you can draw your own hopefully valid conclusions. Sometimes people draw the wrong conclusions from good data, and sometimes people draw logical conclusions from what's actually bad data; in both cases we end up with bad conclusions.

 

I don't particularly have an agenda to push with regards to one amp or another.  There are plenty of valid reasons to like one amp over another in my books, and not everybody wants textbook straight-pipe presentations.  I don't either, since I like EQ and crossfeed sometimes (but IMHO alterations at the hardware level are clunkier, more expensive, and less flexible than those at the software level).  It would just be better if more people could see the reality for themselves, whatever it may be, so we can keep the facts straight.  A more-informed consumer base demands better products from manufacturers.


Edited by mikeaj - 2/7/12 at 1:04am
post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post

 

As much as I enjoy this hobby, im not an idiot, i can't ignore the hard facts. Guess i could bury my head in the sand.. but i've never really been that type. If you don't like the o2, then you don't like your source, because all the o2 is, is your source with gain.



I guess I really have to try one now

post #29 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post

yeah, then there are the people who a/b vs GS-1, and Vioelectric HPA-200 and say there's no significant difference. There's an HPA-200 for sale right now in the f/s forum because the owner did not see the value in comparison. There will be an EF5 there soon, for the same reason.

 


 

I also own the EF5 amp. It can have a very colored sound depending on the tube your using, the romantic sound is exactly the reasons why I like it.

It will also power some more demanding headphones.I keep seeing it in the FS section for around the same price as the M-Stage.

Just something else the OP can consider.

 

Heck, maybe MikeW will give you a good deal :)


Edited by francisdemarte - 2/7/12 at 8:15am
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
 If you don't like the o2, then you don't like your source, because all the o2 is, is your source with gain.


Oh I see, I need to double or even triple my budget for source gear to really appreciate the O2. Maybe I need to take as much out of the signal path as possible, wait while I try plugging my TT straight into the O2.

 

Ok, sorry for the snarkiness. I know I said my last post was my closing statement. But I'm weak and couldn't resist the bait.

 

Seriously Mike, I re-read this entire thread and not one person said they "don't like the O2". The closest comment was from me, and I said "I don't like the O2 as much as the Matrix".

 

* As an side note: the "wire with gain" debate has been going on longer than the O2 has been around. See the Passive vs. Active pre-amp arena. Many have gone the passive route and enjoyed the experience. And many others have tried it and gone back to actives. Sometimes just the knowledge of the straight line connection from source to amp contributed to their enjoyment whether or not they actually thought it sounded better. I'm just saying.....

 

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